A conservative friend of mine gave the same answer you just wrote @TatinG. The flyover states are not being heard.
Is this a talking point now in the conservative media?
Because the last I looked, Each fly over state has 2 senators. The same as California. NY. Texas.
The fly over states are over represented.
Anyway, is this a talking point?
@busdriver You’re correct, of course, that there’s not a different tax rate for blacks than for whites. But another undeniable fact is that the wealthy are overwhelmingly white. And therefore the people who can take advantage of benefits available only to the wealthy are also overwhelmingly white.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/12/12/racial-wealth-gaps-great-recession/
And:
Regarding wealth inequality in general:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/12/17/wealth-gap-upper-middle-income/
This is a large and growing problem which we need to start addressing yesterday. In a plutocracy, no one does well over the long term, not even the plutocrats.
The reason I “blame” the downscale white guy is that for 36 years he’s been propping up the plutocrats who are doing this to him. If he applied just a bit of research and critical thinking, he’d see that he’s misdiagnosed the reasons for his problems.
The overwhelming majority of those who reaped the most benefits from the booming housing and investment markets are the upper and higher echelons of the upper-middle class.
Everyone else either didn’t have enough money to buy in or in the case of some marginalized groups…were barred from meaningful participation due to de jure and de facto discrimination in housing* and investments.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-foreclosures-race-idUSTRE6930K520101004
Another racial disparity argument cast in black & white only. This is like the annual hand-wringing about Stuyvesant school discriminating against minorities because it’s only 5% black, but conveniently fails to mention that it’s 3/4 asian.
Kristoff’s wife is Chinese American, and his kids are biracial. Asians are glaringly absent from his narrative.
LasMa, the article you linked showing the racial wealth gap between black/Hispanics and whites lists three main reasons why a typical white household has 16 times the wealth of black ones. Home ownership, education, and labor markets. They conveniently left out the major reason that people have low levels of wealth—single parenthood. A dual income couple, or even a couple where one stays home to take care of the kids earns and saves far more than a single parent who is responsible for the entire family. Contributing to the reason for low homeownership (or ownership in low income neighborhoods where home aren’t appreciating), and low income in the labor market. It seems rather dishonest to leave that out.
No @dstark. I am not in the loop on ‘conservative talking points’. This is an observation I made on my own.
Busdriver, what does that have to do with the grievances of the economically disadvantaged white guy?
Why is the wealthy offended by the notion that there is growing income disparity? It is not class warfare to point out that the current income distribution is problematic because it results in a shrinking middle class. I happen to think nobody cares about the wealthy getting wealthier - what concerns folks is the poor getting poorer and more people falling out of the middle class.
If the solution is higher taxes I can see how the wealthy think they are losing something by acknowledging the problem. However, the solution has more to do with creating more well paying jobs which has not been trickling down from tax breaks. Therefore, the solution can’t be more tax breaks. Policy makers need to reward actual job creation and not just the group of people they think are the job creators.
The shrinking middle class ought to concern the wealthy too because a shrinking economy eventually bites everyone in the @$$. Demand for goods and services go down, the tax base contracts and the money multiplier fizzles
like a balloon with the air let out.
And I wasn’t talking about politics. I was talking about the way columnists like Kristof and the commentators on TV (most of whom came from well-off backgrounds and went to elite schools) talk as if they know the ‘average’ American and presume to know their minds. When I see them on TV talk about certain segments of the population its as if they are talking about bugs under glass, examining them as curiosities. Because they don’t really know them but pretend they do. Would you take advice from someone who had absolutely no idea what you’ve gone through? Or have no idea what it’s like to be a coal miner, a rancher, a store clerk, a cop?. Or to be told that you are ‘privileged’ when you saw your job go to someone with an H1B visa that you had to train?
I watch these people on television spout off and just shake my head at their cluelessness.
"Busdriver, what does that have to do with the grievances of the economically disadvantaged white guy? "
Absolutely nothing. I was merely pointing out that I thought the article you linked wasn’t being honest about cause and effect.
“Why is the wealthy offended by the notion that there is growing income disparity? It is not class warfare to point out that the current income distribution is problematic because it results in a shrinking middle class. I happen to think nobody cares about the wealthy getting wealthier - what concerns folks is the poor getting poorer and more people falling out of the middle class.”
I don’t think they are offended by the notion. They are offended by the constant drumbeat that they are guilty of doing something wrong, that other people’s lack of economic gains is somehow their fault, because of their greed. That they aren’t paying “their fair share”, though people who get their income via earned income can be paying massive tax rates. Pay 39.6% on the top part of your income, Medicare tax, Obamacare tax, state tax rates of up to 13.3%, lose many deductions, and you could be paying a very large portion of your income in taxes. Tell these people that they aren’t paying their fair share and they will be offended. That is class warfare.
The system is broken. My wife who is an inner city principal and frequently deals with DCF tells me things that I thought were exaggerations but have been corroborated by her coworkers. With what she sees, it is clear that we’re heading towards disaster. I could express more but this blog would immediately be shut down so I’ll shut up.
But busdriver1, while it’s not necessarily their fault, it’s their board of directors’ faults, but really …lay off 400 “little people” and give the top execs 14% raises? Why, yes, I do think they are guilty! And greedy. As long as they get theirs, they couldn’t care less about “The 400”.
I agree, @VaBluebird, and that knd of thing enrages me. Lay off hundreds of people, pay yourself a massive bonus for your “cost savings”. Company declares bankruptcy? Another big bonus, gotta keep this fine talent that led us into bankruptcy. Slash salaries, bonus once more.
However, this is a select and small group of people who are getting away with raiding the company coffers. I don’t find it beneficial to blame a huge number of people who have done well financially for the actions of a few.
I have no idea if this can really count. I felt it so I’ll put it here. As I was retiring, a p.r.n. position at a military clinic was posted, I sent my resume. And got a request for more info, this: “…is required by law to obtain certain information on all applicants and employees to assure that we are in compliance with Executive Order 11246, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and section 503 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, as amended. In addition, data is necessary to assist us in meeting our Affirmative Action Plan goals. This information is voluntary and will be used only for the purpose of meeting our Affirmative Action obligation and will not be a part of your applicant file, nor be given consideration with any personnel action.” And I knew without a doubt that as a white woman, I didn’t stand a chance. That everything else being equal, a person of color or other ethnicity would get the job. And I remember thinking "wow, so this is how they feel all. the. time ". I’d never felt like that. Perhaps I had a glimpse, I don’t know. I just knew it was pointless to continue to pursue that job.
I think it’s clear that people on both sides are tired of being lectured to by the professional politicians.
Busdriver, the problem is that the guys on top aren’t only destroying their own workforces in order to line their own pockets, which is bad enough. They also tend to support policy makers who do things like resist an increase in the minimum wage, reward companies who send jobs out of the country, weaken worker protections, oppose ending the FICA cap, oppose spending on infrastructure which would provide lots of good jobs, etc etc. Again, individual actions aren’t the point. What matters is laws.
"And I knew without a doubt that as a white woman, I didn’t stand a chance. That everything else being equal, a person of color or other ethnicity would get the job. And I remember thinking "wow, so this is how they feel all. the. time “. I’d never felt like that. Perhaps I had a glimpse, I don’t know. I just knew it was pointless to continue to pursue that job.”
You think that a person of color feels, all the time, that it is pointless to pursue a job? I see people of all colors and ethnicities all over the country, working in a wide range of positions. It sounds like you think that if one didn’t believe they would get an affirmative action hire, then they shouldn’t bother to apply at all, because they could never get hired, otherwise.
You probably believe that is compassionate thinking, but I can tell you, as someone in a job where I an extreme minority… that sort of thinking is not kind. It is insulting.
“Busdriver, the problem is that the guys on top aren’t only destroying their own workforces in order to line their own pockets, which is bad enough. They also tend to support policy makers who do things like resist an increase in the minimum wage, reward companies who send jobs out of the country, weaken worker protections, oppose ending the FICA cap, oppose spending on infrastructure which would provide lots of good jobs, etc etc. Again, individual actions aren’t the point. What matters is laws.”
You cover an awful lot of ground there. Plenty of guys at the top supporting both sides. And not everything is so clear. A significantly higher minimum wage will put some companies out of business and raise costs for all consumers. The fantasy that all companies can just pull it out of their vast profit is a myth. We raised it to $15/hr in Seattle, and people are asking for cuts in hours so they don’t lose their government benefits. FICA goes up every single year, and lifting the cap would be a large tax increase on some, with no commensurate benefit increase. Then again, it’s always desirable to increase other people’s taxes.
Actually, increasing the minimum wage has little or no effect on employment. Business groups have an obvious reason to convince us that it does, but they’re wrong.
Eliminating the FICA cap would remove the argument that Social Security and Medicare are going broke, an argument which is used in the service of those who want to privatize them. Rich people have an obvious reason to convince us that making them pay more tax would be bad and privatizing would be good, but they’re wrong.
The best question to ask always is “Who benefits, and who gets hurt?” For 35 years, on almost every policy change, the wealthy have benefited almost exclusively, and everyone else has gotten hurt. People are finally waking up to that and they’re ticked.