<p>Most kids really like their colleges. (e.g. Kentucky, Lower South Central Louisiana, whereever!!) That’s a GOOD thing, but it doesn’t mean I have to regard all schools as equal!</p>
<p>Miami Ohio has always gotten a good following from folks that I like. I never visited it as it never made my kids’ lists but it is a school that attracts some great students. I’d like to see more state schools like that as well as enhancement of the state flagships.</p>
<p>Miami DAP - MOWC did not apply any labels to your kid. She’s not a fan of that particular school. OK, whatever. We all have schools that we like / don’t like. Oh well. It works out great for other people and it’s all good. </p>
<p>Why does it bother you so? If your D had a great time, accomplished her goals and you were pleased with the experience and price tag, isn’t that enough for you?</p>
<p>For top ten State Flagship Schools for undergrad, can we have a list?</p>
<p>My top ten is this:</p>
<p>UC Berkeley, UVA, UNC, U Michigan, UCLA, UW Madison, UT Austin, U Illinois, UC San Diego, U of Minnesota.</p>
<p>Have to admit that I am biased here. But the list is directionally correct.</p>
<p>I don’t know how you decide which UCs are flagships, but I would put William and Mary ahead of UCSD, even though W&M is not a flagship.</p>
<p>Yes, kxc, and that is a good list, and also a good explanation for why those who live in the Northeast have a difficult time conversing on the subject of the value of the state flagship education. It’s not something available to them, instate.</p>
<p>ETA: I wouldn’t put ucsd in that list</p>
<p>“Yes, kxc, and that is a good list, and also a good explanation for why those who live in the Northeast have a difficult time conversing on the subject of the value of the state flagship education. It’s not something available to them, instate”</p>
<p>that really varies. Leaving aside UVA as “southern” Penn State, if not making the top ten publics, is a pretty solid flagship, and UMD-CP isnt far behind.</p>
<p>Historically SUNY, Rutgers, and the New England publics were much weaker, though Ive heard (mainly here) that they have improved.</p>
<p>This year especially, almost all the UC’s seem to be admitting some really strong students. It’s hard to get into most without a 4.0.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/campuses/davis/freshman-profile/index.html[/url]”>http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/campuses/davis/freshman-profile/index.html</a></p>
<p>The detailed ones with the PDF links tell the story.</p>
<p>And that was LAST year…</p>
<p>I find the whole discussion here a bit strange. People hurling their biases against each other, without much impact. Maybe I have an unusual perspective on this because I’m neither “all private” nor “all public.” I attended a top public, the University of Michigan, as an undergrad, and I’ve always believed and continue to believe to this day that the undergraduate education I got there in my chosen major, philosophy, was at a level that perhaps only 4 or 5 other colleges in the country, public and private, could have matched at the time, and I believe that’s still true today. But I also attended two Ivies at the graduate level, taught at a third, and have taught at two other leading state flagships; I know their strengths, I know their warts, and I mostly think people bring their own biases to the debate as to which is better, and see what they want to see. My oldest daughter is a freshman at a top private LAC; I have no qualms about paying full-freight for that becuase I think she’s getting an outstanding education there, but to be honest I’d have been just as happy had she decided to attend my undergraduate alma mater, Michigan, because I think she could have gotten an outstanding education there just as I had. (By the way, full OOS tuition at Michigan is about $8,000 less than full tuition at my D’s LAC, so as full-pays at either institution Michigan would have been a cost-saving option, too, though for us that was obviously not an overriding consideration). </p>
<p>I think a lot of the stuff about “risk” at a public flagship is overblown nonsense, as is the bit about how you’re dragged down by the bottom of the class. That certainly was not my experience. I entered in the Honors Program, lived with, and had all my first-year classes in small groups taught by top professors with, kids who came in with essentially Ivy-caliber stats. By sophomore year I was taking almost entirely small upper-level classes both in my major and in other fields I was interested in, primarily alongside highly motivated upperclassmen, and by my junior and senior years I was taking primarily graduate-level classes in one of the top philosophy programs in the nation, alongside grad students with undergrad degrees from Ivies, top LACs, and other top publics. That’s not at all unusual; at top public flagships you can move just as far and as fast as your ability will allow. The bottom half of the class that supposedly dragged me down? Never saw them. Well, maybe sat near some in the Big House on football Saturdays, but that’s about the extent of the contact. </p>
<p>As for the debate over Miami University: I have no brief here as I’ve never had much contact with it, apart from appreciating its historic role as the “cradle of coaches” in college football. I do recall a conversation with a recent Miami grad, a very strong grad student who very much enjoyed his time there, who thought the academics were “OK” but said he’d recommend it more for the social scene than for strong academics. But I wouldn’t knock anyone for attending it, anymore than I’d knock someone for attending a similarly-ranked private like American U or Baylor which, if you drill down into the statistics, are almost indistinguishable from Miami U in entering class stats, student body size, student-faculty ratio, class sizes, graduation rates, and on and on, right down to “peer assessment” (= 3.2 for all three schools), indicating that academics consider Miami U a good but not outstanding institution—just like American or Baylor. And since OOS tuition at Miami U is several thousand dollars cheaper than tuition at either American or Baylor, it seems to me a perfectly rational call to attend a public university of comparable quality at a lower price than similarly-ranked privates. Or vice versa, depending on one’s preferences. It’s not really about “public” v. “private” at all.</p>
<p>The point is, I think the whole “public” v. “private” debate is largely a lot of hot air.</p>
<p>@ Shinkrap, </p>
<p>I would agree. Looking at UCLA’s admitted stats, it looks like that of Columbia…</p>
<p>bclintok </p>
<p>It depends on the kid, I think.</p>
<p>We know one kid, so so GPA, as ADHD as the day is long. She went to an OOS flagship - not one of the top ten, but one touted as “an A school for B kids” and known for good aid, I believe. </p>
<p>I THINK she finished freshman year. She is now back home, attending the local community college. </p>
<p>I dont know exactly what happened, and obviously kids crash and burn at privates, including LAC’s. But I would have suggested that she was not a good candidate for a large public (I was not consulted). OTOH I know kids who thrive at large publics, including very smart kids.</p>
<p>bclintonck is 100% correct. Class dismissed.</p>
<p>Great post,bclintonk. Thank you for taking the time to write all of that.</p>
<p>bclintonk: say it again!</p>
<p>i find this whole debate really psychotic in a way…</p>
<p>
Why wouldn’t you? Do you know much about UCSD?</p>
<p>Partially just because some of this process is subjective, franky. I actually happen to agree that this is a relatively silly debate, personally, and I also happen to believe that the top 50 schools are all great, and probably even most of the top 100. I’m not a big “prestige” person, and I think the size of a school is a big determinant for a lot of kids, for a lot of reasons.</p>
<p>But, as to UCSD, I have to say that I’d put Georgia Tech above them, for the same reason people would put Berkeley above them. AND I think we are splitting atoms at this point to be down to mouens and quarks. 
BTW, my daughter didn’t choose a top ten school, or even a top 25. She chose her safety because it was the one she liked best, and she had my and my husband’s full support in this, if you’re wondering where I come down on the whole “prestige” value question IRL. though, I completely and totally understand and respect those who have a different take on it.</p>
<p>^^ I’ve never been to Georgia Tech and don’t know much about them. USNWR puts them both at the same ranking fwiw. </p>
<p>I guarantee UCSD has a nicer beach and nicer weather that Ga Tech. ;)</p>
<p>Regarding the rankings/prestige - My UCSD kid turned down UCB for it, so did my UCLA kid, and neither of them applied to the group of ivies - they weren’t interested in them despite me suggesting they apply to them. I think they both made sound decisions but the decisions would have been just as sound if they chose UCB or an ivy. I guess that’s the crux of it and shows there’s not a ‘winner’ in this debate/discussion - it’s more ‘different strokes for different folks’ to some extent.</p>
<p>Yes, for what she was really looking for, I think my daughter couldn’t have chosen better, though there would be many who would be, including my mother, horrified that she turned down certain schools, for this one. I’m fine with it. It’s not like I’m going to school!</p>
<p>As to there being no “winner?” I guess what there really is is no loser. Just a lot of different kids and a lot of different schools for those different kids. :)</p>
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<p>Thank you for helping me understand my own opinion a little better! (seriously) I guess I always tend to ask myself “Would you recommend that someone choose this school over their state flagship university?” When it comes to Miami AND Baylor/American and a few others, my answer is always a strong “NO”. I just don’t see it. I feel that there are a certain group of schools that don’t solve some of the problems people might have with a huge state university, and also don’t have the benefits. To me, Miami et al (I put SMU in here, too) are in this category. Despite the accusations against me, I am actually a big fan of many of the state flagships (not Kentucky…). I LOVE most of the SEC schools and if you are planning to live and work in your state, you simply can’t go wrong (even Kentucky…). I attended a Big Ten school, but lost many of the benefits by leaving the state. I can see why people would choose a LAC that offers great merit money and a smaller environment. My son had one of the large SEC schools as his safety and I was so excited about it that I ordered a t-shirt for myself just in case he attended! So- for me it isn’t a public v. private issue or even about prestige. My very favorite school is Rice which is where my daughter went, but my son wouldn’t even consider it. </p>
<p>One huge benefit I got from my state university was a passion for college basketball. This may sound trivial, but it has given me joy for many years, and has served me well in my profession. I may not golf, but I can hold my own in the basketball debates! </p>
<p>So- I realize I am stepping on toes, and I know my opinion is so important to the world that I will have a huge impact on applications to Miami, but that’s my story and I’m sticking to it!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Egad! There is nothing LESS trivial than college basketball! 
One of life’s true great joys. </p>
<p>Go Heels!</p>