<p>I don’t think it’s people new to this country. Most parents I know would do anything to get their kids into the best schools possible because they know it’s a good way to make sure their kids will continue to enjoy the life they are accustom to. Most of them have graduated from HYPS, and they are beside themselves their kids may not be able to get in.</p>
<p>The best physicians that we have seen (who are also working at major urban, university-affiliated hospitals) went to undergrad schools we have barely heard of. Ditto the amazing music professor at a top-notch conservatory prep. The kids we know who went to state university have done wonderfully, studied abroad, had great emplyment connections, and don’t have major debt. </p>
<p>Books like “Colleges that Change Lives,” “Cool Colleges,” “Creative Colleges,” and “Beyond the Ivies” are really helpful in opening up avenues that are just as good as Harvard, Yale, Princeton etc., and may actually be better for many students. I may be a little dated in my knowledge of these books, but maybe other people here know of newer ones.</p>
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<p>Well, you must live in a different area of the country from me. Here, everyone knows that you can have great success in life with a degree from any Big Ten university (or even, gasp, a lower tier university), and trust me, there are PLENTY of rich people (if that’s how we’re defining success) enjoying quite cushy lifestyles who attended such places. Then again, there are plenty of ways to be successful and “book smarts” is just one of them – many successful people are that way because they are clever, creative, hard-working, great with people, etc. The parents here who are agonizing over getting their kids into HYPS et al (and are fully able to fund full pay, expensive EC’s, etc.) didn’t necessarily go to those schools themselves.</p>
<p>I am originally from the east. I GET the OMG-HYP-or-bust mentality. But, it’s a little unsophisticated and provincial for east coast people (who ironically pride themselves on sophistication) to pretend that the east is all there is. When you see other parts of the country, you can see that there are people who are just as well-to-do, enjoy just as nice lifestyles, and that there are many paths to financial success, not all of them through HYP. </p>
<p>Frankly, the richest people I know (and I mean big-time rich) went to Tulane, Pitt and a midwestern state flagship (not big 10). The Ivy grads are doing fine, but no better or worse than equally smart people who chose to go elsewhere. The world of “if my kids don’t attend one of these 10 schools, they won’t enjoy the lifestyle they’re accustomed to” is indeed a very narrow and provincial world.</p>
<p>I despised high school and ditched as much as I could- I averaged 55 days absence per year yet maintained a “C” average in classes like Trig, Physiology, and advanced English. I took night classes at college while “attending” high school, passed an equivalency test when I was 15 that was the same as a GED but for people under 18. I made a deal with my parents to get a “real diploma” and then I went on to college. I left school after 2 years because I couldn’t decide upon a major. I was utterly shocked at having to attend class every day- boy was that hard! I learned more about life than anything I did in any class I attended. I gained 2-3 “best” friends and still have those friends today- 28 years later. I went on to join the military for a few years to “figure out what I wanted to major in” and 20 years later retired. I am now working for the government making good money to support my family.</p>
<p>Do I regret those years? No. I wouldn’t be where I am now without that life experience. Do I want this for my children? No. Do I harp on them to get good grades? You betcha. Could my son get straight A’s with a little more effort? Yes. But you know what- it’s not where you go (college) but what you do with it when you get there.</p>
<p>Like other parents stated- the good grades will give you more options. Other grades won’t stop you from going to college- it just means your choices may not be what you’d like.</p>
<p>That said- senior year should be enjoyed… but strike a balance. I would talk to your parents about the stress you are feeling. From personal experience- sometimes we tend to get tunnel vision on what we see our children doing and the places they’re going which are not necessarily the same places our children are seeing themselves doing/going.</p>
<p>When I read your post, I get the feeling that you are being compared to your sister. Talk to your parents about these feeling of stress and their expectations, maybe point out that different is not a bad thing- it’s just different. Yes, good grades are important but not if it’s affecting your health. This is high school-- it’s not the end of the world if you don’t get straight A’s.</p>
<p>oldfort: "I don’t think it’s people new to this country. Most parents I know would do anything to get their kids into the best schools possible because they know it’s a good way to make sure their kids will continue to enjoy the life they are accustom to. "</p>
<p>Then these people, despite being HYPSM grads, are <em>not</em> as sophisticated or <em>not</em> as well-traveled or <em>not</em> as aware-of-the-ways-of-the-world as they like to think they are.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, how do you know? I could put those claims because I know them. At the same time I have never claimed it is the case for everyone or every where in this country. But you seem to know so much about these first generation immigrants and holder of so many truths. I don’t think I ever said those people are very sophiscated, you seem to like to put words in people mouth. But since you brought it up, they are very well traveled and have worked around the globe. It doesn’t make them better, it is just the way it is.</p>
<p>Another point to bring up is this is each person’s experience, there is no rule here that we must reach consensus, and ther is no reason to attack any group people because they live differently.</p>
<p>Except OctoMom … maybe.</p>
<p>Well, it’s simple, oldfort! If one’s entire world is, for example, i-banking or management consulting in NYC, then, indeed, one <em>could</em> think that the most important determiner of life success is a degree from HYPSM (etc). If one has ventured beyond that world (you know, to the actual world of the businesses that all the i-bankers and management consultants consult to, where real people have to make real things!), then one can figure out pretty easily that while HYPSM are certainly excellent places to go and offer opportunities more readily, that success (if defined as financial) can be had a bunch of different ways and a bunch of different places, and that if success is defined even more broadly and not just on the narrow criteria of $$$, that life success really has little to do with one’s choice of college overall.</p>
<p>I stand by what I said. If someone really believes the only path to riches is HYPSM, then that tells me they’ve inhabited a limited, sheltered world. It may be an affluent world, but it’s still limited and sheltered.</p>
<p>Also, I didn’t mean to equate success to wealth in my earlier post. It was just a concrete way of showing a point - I know people who are happy and successful who have gone to a wide variety of colleges. And a few who didn’t go to college. I even have a friend who transferred OUT of Harvard (no, I’m not referring to Bill Gates or Matt Damon, both of whom left the hallowed halls before receiving their degrees but seemed to do okay for themselves.)</p>
<p>An education at a “prestigious” institution is a great way to start off your adult life. There are many advantages to that path. But it’s not the only way, and if you spend your teens grooming yourself for just that experience you are limiting yourself.</p>
<p>Someone who’s “well-traveled” surely must be aware of the many, many well-to-do people in this country who didn’t go to HYPSM or who got to their success through criteria other than book-smarts. If not, then they are just confining themselves to a certain, very narrow sector of society.</p>
<p>Look, I love book-smarts! I’m book-smart myself, LOL! I don’t need to be a genuis, however, to figure out that in my profession / client base, Ivy League grads and good-state-U grads work side by side, and (gasp) sometimes the good-state-U grad gets the promotion. I don’t need to be a genius to look at the professional contacts in LinkedIn and see the same. I don’t need to be a genius to figure out that some of the wealthiest families don’t NEED to send their kids to Elite Ivys, they can send them to Ole Miss or SMU and they’ll do just fine. I don’t need to be a genius to figure out that if I go visit the subdivisions of any major city where the houses start at $2 million, that the majority of the occupants will be state-school grads, not elite u grads. I don’t need to be a genius to pick up on these things; I just need my eyes open. Do elite u’s have their advantages? Of course. No one is arguing that. Do I want my kids to go to the best school they can get in? Of course. Would it be great if that were HYP? You bet. But to act as though it’s the only path to success? Sorry, I still say that’s naive, sheltered, and provincial. And the guys on Wall Street or Westchester can be just as naive and provincial as the guys from Kansas who doesn’t see why anyone would ever attend anyplace other than U of Kansas.</p>
<p>Most of the people we know who lead enviable lives did not attend HYPs or the equivalent. The many of the professors we know at HYPs (spouse and I are profs. who used to teach at one), did not even attend such schools for undergrad! </p>
<p>In our house, and in the houses of our professor friends, we obviously value education. But we also strongly believe in our children following whatever their passion, assume our kids will end up going beyond one degree, and don’t put a huge weight on where they go to undergrad. </p>
<p>We absolutely encourage our kids to work hard in highschool, because hardwork is an important value to learn and appreciate, and it does increase ones future choices. But at the same time, we also know they will only be teenagers once in their life, and relationships are extremely important to one’s development and to everyone’s wellbeing (easily as important as doing well in school). </p>
<p>Being a straight A student, or getting into Harvard, or scoring a 2400, or having family wealth, all increase your <em>odds</em> of more future opportunity, but it’s only odds. There is no ticket you can earn to a guaranteed future. </p>
<p>Even if you manage to get a particular occupation or income is no guarantee to happiness or fulfillment or love. Planning for the future and some delay of gratification is crucial, but at the same time life should not be deferred following some false illusion of a “ticket to X” security blanket day in day out. Nor is it necessary in this country, even during a recession. One’s lot in life is not determined by a particular GPA- particular school- particular major path. </p>
<p>Everyone can think of examples of “prestige U” graduates who aren’t particularly happy, fulfilled, loved or successful. Likewise there are endless examples of “State U @ leftcampus” graduates who are extremely happy, fulfilling their dreams and even - gasp!- wealthy! The overlapping normal distributions of happiness, success, and wealth among people from each such undergrad background is huge. </p>
<p>In this country at least, there are many many ways to a great life, happiness, fulfillment or income. And there are many many paths to a great education that can get you there.</p>