Where did your white, unhooked, non-super star, lower middle income son attend college?

Parents Forum
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<p>Yes, it is possible for students to have a disability and have it impact them in a single area. Based on the OP’s description of her son having poor computational skills, problems understanding direction (N,S, E,W), etc., it sounds like he has dyscalculia. <a href=“Dyscalculia: Symptoms, Causes and Treatment”>http://www.learninginfo.org/dyscalculia.htm&lt;/a&gt; I also agree with the OP that the math on the SAT is superficial. Questions designed to be able to be answered in seconds are not deep challenging math problems. I suspect he is incredibly gifted and compensates for his disability which masks his deficits. (I have 2E kids who are dyslexic and they do that from the other direction.)</p>

<p>Where I am thoroughly amazed is that he managed to get through any AoPS courses at all. But, the student could probably use that experience as a way to judge what having a career in engineering would feel like to him b/c he won’t have someone tutoring him to solve problems at work. That is what he would be hired to do independently. The question is if he can realistically progress to that level of independent mathematical ability AND be able to perform on the job at the same level/pace of other professionals in that field. </p>

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<p>" was addressing other posters who suggested that the student give up on engineering/CS or other math-heavy majors"

  • I would like to point out to one misconception. While engineering is very math / science heavy, CS is not using ANY math /. science at all. It is much further from any mathematical concepts than many business sub-specialties such as econ., finance, and possibly even marketing. CS does not need a strong background in math and scineces at all. However the link exist. Those who are strong in math simply have develped abstract logical way of thinking while consistantly doing math homework. This is the ONLY skill that is required to be successful in working with the software, creating new code as well as correcting/ updating the existing one. CS does not require a math background (which is absolute must in engineering), but rather the thinking process of those who are good at math. Coming from the former engineer (EE) / current IT professional (over 30 year of experience in IT). EE has absolutely nothing to do with the CS at all. </p>
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<p>Actually, it is closely related to discrete math.</p>

<p>Beyond that, she say her ds has issues being able to memorize formulas and retain them. Programming takes memorizing coding. </p>

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<p>Again, slicing the onion WAY too thin.</p>

<p>Whether this kid ends up in a math intensive major (or not) or ends up starting in engineering and moving to something else (or not) or whether his math disability will catch up with him eventually (or not) to me is a debate akin to “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin”. There are gifted math kids who end up majoring in political science and econ and agronomy and Latin American history and Renaissance Studies (although less likely if the son is struggling in Italian!) etc. There are some disciplines where the son’s reasoning skills are likely to serve him very well (urban planning? He’s got good design and spatial skills and the issues around calculation are not likely to hold him back) but at the end of the day- his parents don’t have to go to class and hand in problem sets and find tutors if he’s struggling. He has to do that- and may decide to run with his strengths and not bother worrying about the deficits.</p>

<p>A fine educational strategy BTW.</p>

<p>Speaks to encouraging him to attend a university with lots and lots of disciplines; where he doesn’t need to declare a major until he’s got his feet wet.</p>

<p>And Miami- you are indeed one unusual computer scientist if you don’t believe that being strong in math is a core requirement for your discipline. An outlier of the highest order.</p>

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<p>This thread explains exactly why the sat is not a meaningful metric, in my opinion, basic high school classes are better college preparation than homeschool community college classes augmented by tutors or an exclusifocus on sta
Op, rather than java, perhaps your son
should go back and fill on the blanks in his math background. Learning the times tables is a good start. </p>

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<p>@momneeds2no,</p>

<p>The OP’s son most likely has dyscalculia. Reducing his issues to going back and learning his multiplication tables is a simplification of what this young man probably really struggles with (and why any career with a math focus is probably an extremely poor fit.)</p>

<p>FWIW, I agree that the SAT is not a meaningful metric, but homeschooling definitely prepares students for college and it is simply your biased opinion to believe otherwise. </p>

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<p>This is in part a homeschooling issue.</p>

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<p>How? He has accommodations. Schools provide accommodations. The OP stated, " most of my sons grades have actually come from outside sources such as community college, AoPS, online classes, and co-op teachers. He actually has precious few “mommy” grades."</p>

<p>How does homeschooling factor into it? </p>

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<p>Hm, interesting last few posts. I don’t think of it as a homeschool issue since my oldest son was homeschooled/dual-enrolled, and he’s vastly different than this son (as is our third son vastly different from either of his older brothers), and doing just fine at MIT as a math/cs double major. I believe this is an issue specifically about this child. </p>

<p>And I am not looking for this son to be a super star. I’m not sure where that came from. My original question was to the point: looking for some place that we can reasonably afford that would be a good fit for this son who is not a super star. </p>

<p>But I understand that people have prejudices against homeschooling, so I won’t argue the point. Funny-my oldest was featured as the poster child for successful homeschooling, as though I, or homeschooling, had something to do with his success. He just is who he is. We just followed what he loved, and he loved to learn.</p>

<p>Back to the current son:</p>

<p>He’s been looking at Discrete Math and in fact, that came up in pre-calc and that is something he thinks he really enjoys. Thing is, re, AoPS-hard, yes, but really, grudgingly enjoyable to him. He’s a problem solver, he’s creative, and AoPS was the best thing we ever did for his math. Had I not felt a need to justify his grades through college courses, I would have had him continue with AoPS. Turns out, though, that his pre-calc teacher graduated from Stanford and is an incredible teacher, so if my son earns a B, it will be a tremendous accomplishment. The guy is well-loved and well known to be a very hard teacher. The college has an excellent reputation with selective UCs, so they know these classes are solid. My MIT son was able to transfer all his math classes to MIT-all the ones he took at this college, so I guess even they recognize that this is as good an education as a “regular” high school.</p>

<p>(Oh, and he does know his multiplication tables. LOL He just didn’t memorize them early like most kids do)</p>

<p>At any rate, I agree that being able to go in undeclared is what makes the most sense, if that is possible.</p>

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<p>@mom2physicsgeek “homeschooling” is a broad and generic term. Not all homeschooling programs incorporate enough diversity of topic and setting to be classified as “college prep”. </p>

<p>As to the “insult”… Did you read the entire thread? Apperantly the op feels that sdsu discriminated against Her high stat son in favor of “Hispanic friend” with lesser stats (GPA and sat). After reading other of ops threads, it’s obvious that her “Cuban friend” a attended a highly rated California chater school and took 5 APs. Like it or not, a traditional ap circulum will be seen as an advantage when applying for CSUs. </p>

<p>Personally I believe that an ap circulum is overrated in terms of educational value… But I don’t make the rules at state Us.</p>

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<p>Did you read the entire thread? She has a son at MIT. Obviously her homeschool is college prep. The rest has nothing to do with where he went to school. </p>

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<p>By the way, memorizing the times tables is not a calculation function. The op choose an alternative math route for her son which avoided his area of dis function. IMO, big mistake. Kids brains are still developing and childhood is time for the to confront challenging topics. Statistically, high achieving LD kids learned (by slogging up hill for years and years) how to identify potential pitfalls and employ well practiced compensation stragies. Test prep tutors is not a sustainable compensation tactic. </p>

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<p>Avoided his area of dysfunction? The kid took two AOPS math classes. That’s not avoiding his area of dysfunction, that’s confronting it head on.</p>

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<p>I think I’ll sign off CC for today, but did want to share a funny story.</p>

<p>I have friend whose daughter is really struggling with her Alg II class (she’s a senior in high school) and my friend has asked my 2015er son to tutor her daughter. :slight_smile: So there ya go. Best way to really know something is to teach it. He says he’s not sure how well he’ll do, but he’s going to try.</p>

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<p>Read op post 159 and 177. Daily tutoring (by two different tutors) for alg. No math in grades 6-8. (I assume ages 11 - 14). IMO big mistake. I suggest the kid confront the gaps in his math background. And get special end ld help which may generalize to other ares on time. </p>

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<p>"Programming takes memorizing coding. "

  • I am blessed with the fact that there is a great and exciting field for somebody like me who has no memory whatsoever, none, never could memorise anything at all…and it is CS, no need for memory whatsoever, yeyeye!! Actually, I believe that it allows more “brain power” for analysis, so I think it is a blessing not to retain all kind of garbage that you can easily find anywhere. Ability to perform analysis is important, memory is a must in Medicine and absolutely not needed in CS.</p>
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<p>Op, lots of folks gave you suggestion. I subggested:
Cal Luthern, fits your need for conservative non-party, local for your sons medical needs, has programs in media arts as well as others, gives good aid and merit.
RIT: understands “non-traditional” kids. Has good arty-techie programs. Gives nice aid packages to higher SAT kids.<br>
Neither are fancy MIT caliber schools, but offer the type if environment and support your son needs to become independently successful in accedemics. </p>

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<p>…BTW, since I have workde at so many places and with so many and different packages, actually the best is to erase everything that you know from one place and not let it interfere with absolutely different logical system while writing software at different place. I had to force myselt not to think in a way I used to think or even switch back a forth at the same place of employement while producing code in different languages (some of them are not really languages, I just call them this to avoid technicalities). Ability to clear your mind and start anew is also very important.</p>

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<p>@momneeds2no‌ </p>

<p>I actually agree with your comments about what his real math abilities probably are. </p>

<p>When the OP posted “thing is, re, AoPS-hard, yes, but really, grudgingly enjoyable to him. He’s a problem solver, he’s creative, and AoPS was the best thing we ever did for his math. Had I not felt a need to justify his grades through college courses, I would have had him continue with AoPS,” several things went through my mind. Completing AoPS courses with intense tutoring is really not quite the same as completing AoPS since AoPS is designed for independent study. Receiving the odd Socratic type guidance which AoPS offers students is different than intense tutoring. Any student that requires “intense tutoring to get this far” with “this far” being pre-cal is stil indicative of a hurdle.</p>

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<p>Math tutoring, and even intensive math tutoring, is available in college. I don’t see any problem with expecting this kid to continue getting help in math in college. However, I also think that if he needs substantial tutoring in math, then engineering is not a good major for him, and he ought to seek a major that caters to his strengths. </p>

<p>It may be that some programming jobs don’t require math. However, a decent CS degree is going to require math and plenty of it. Plus, graphics is all about the linear algebra, and big data applications are all about the calculus. </p>