<p>thumper: there is there any data published that shows that Toyota makes a profit on the Prius?</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>That is also a good question.</p>
<p>I know that hybrids are not particularly profitable technology right now. I sort of view them like we viewed Lead Free gas…no one thought it would catch on…but it did.</p>
<p>I know that the R and D on these hybrids is expensive stuff and so is retooling the plants. But I think it’s too bad that MOST of Tenis’s list was SUV’s and then the Cadillac. </p>
<p>There has been a lot of ranting and raving on the TV and in the papers about how folks aren’t buying the U.S. car company cars. I guess my point is…these companies need to look at what people ARE buying…and consider moving in that direction.</p>
<p>thumper:</p>
<p>The ‘lead-free gas’ was a mandate - it didn’t need to catch on and wasn’t something at the whim of the consumer.</p>
<p>
And what the 3 companies need right now is ‘profitability’ so they need to focus immediately on steps to ensure their survival. They’re in a crisis mode and need to react accordingly.</p>
<p>
I agree with this and I know they have employees whose jobs are to do this but maybe they haven’t been as successful as they could have been.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I NEVER said there was published data that shows the Prius is a profit maker.</p>
<p>However, it IS a good seller.</p>
<p>UCSD…this is the chance for those envisionaries at the car companies to LOOK AROUND and see what appeals to the car buyers out there. Look at what DOES sell. Look at the product lines that are successful. AND be realistic…look at what doesn’t sell as well…and I agree with others…get rid of the duplicates.</p>
<p>
Umm. What does Honda/Toyota have in large volumes which the US automakers don’t have a direct competitor for? The issue is that many of the US cars are simply not <em>good</em>. However, there are many cases where the competing American car is quite good: Chevy Malibu/Saturn Aura, Saturn Astra, Cadillac CTS, Pontiac G8, Chevy Corvette. Personally, I believe that GMs model lineup is stronger than it’s ever been. Previously, the only car I liked that GM made was the Corvette (the trucks have always been very good though). Now I feel that GM has legitimate competitors in many model segments.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>“Big Three May Need to Trim Number of Brands”,</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/02/business/02auto.html?_r=1&scp=7&sq=general%20motors%20toyota&st=cse[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/02/business/02auto.html?_r=1&scp=7&sq=general%20motors%20toyota&st=cse</a></p>
<p>One of the arguments against Universal Health Care is the lack of choices.
Can this same argument be used for US based auto manufacturers? Reducing brands reduces choices and the number of dealerships, thus constraining free enterprise?</p>
<p>It appears that Congress does have enough votes to support a direct loan program to our manufacturers. Since our Congress “represents” its electorate, it would seem that the Americans don’t support US based assemblers and parts manufacturers. What else would Americans not support? </p>
<p>As W said today, “…it’s important for Americans to know…” .</p>
<p>The Big 3 couldn’t get me to buy one of their cars, but with a bailout they’ve found another way to get my money anyway.</p>
<p>Choice would need to be balanced against profitability.</p>
<p>Imo it would be hard to argue that the 58 models in 7 brands of the Japanese top three constitute a confining dearth of choice.</p>
<p>Cut all. Really. Starting from scratch would be good for them. Saturn is a precedent. I listened to their testimonies and I think it is more politics than business. They can invest in green, blue, red or whatever else, the fact remains that not many consumers like their car for the at least the past two decades. What makes them become so hot in the next year or so? Please!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Thumper, are you sure you aren’t in Marketing? It’s the classic marketing maxim: ‘don’t worry about the loss per widget, we’ll make it up on volume.’ :D</p>
<p>One of the highest payback they can have is to change the stupid plain-dumb looking cheap bronze cross on Chevrolet. If Chevy is for the everyman should the logo be cheap looking too ? At least try to bring a little class! Chrysler sells some of the worst cars in the world but admit their cars at least look stylish, and have a tasteful badge. But the chevy has the everyman plain-jane,gawdy,cheap-looking “gold” cross. Can we have a little taste, please ?</p>
<p>BTW Buick is a keeper. Strong sales oversea esp in China.</p>
<p>Kept Buick. Strong oversea sales, esp China.</p>
<p>^^ They could still get rid of Buick and just plaster Buick labels on certain Chevys they sell in China. I’ve heard Buick does well in China but I don’t know if it does well enough to keep the separate division globally. The rebranding I mentioned is sometimes done by manufacturers for marketing purposes in other countries.</p>
<p>My recommendation would be to keep Chevy, Caddy, Saturn and loose the rest.</p>
<p>Maybe it is because I live in S. Cal but I do not know anyone that buys a GM car unless it is a Utility vehicle. If I see someone driving a newer GM car, I assume that it is a rental car. I just do not see how GM will get people to buy their cars. The brand has serious bad connotations. I think GM should merge with Chrysler and come up with a new brand name. GTE did this with Verizon. They need a new start. They tried this with Saturn and were building a new brand but never were able to fully commit to the brand. This was a failure of arrogance on their part. They may have great new products with great value and workmanship but who will give them the time to sell these products. I also believe the incentives should go to the public to buy these cars with tax incentives. I might buy my daughter a Ford Mustang if I could get a tax break. Finally, I think the Oil Companies should help out with some loans to the Big 3. The Oil Companies have been very successful over the years selling fuel for our gas guzzling autos.</p>
<p>It is sad in large metro cities in the west that people are mesmerized with imports. When I was in socal and norcal, it killed me to count how many imports are in the parking lot vs domestics. The only lone hold out was Ford Taurus that held its own against the hondas of the world and in fact was best selling for a couple of years. Then some friggin idiot at Ford decided to retired its only shining star - before mullaly took over. And the replacement was the gigantic, tank-like Ford 500 !!!</p>
<p>I did owned a Sable which is Taurus rebadged as a Mercury. And that car is more reliable than any Camrys I have owned. Nothing ever goes wrong with the engine. It is smooth and strong all the time. Sure it has lousy cup-holders, I mean it was lousy to the extreme as the entire assembly was held up by a tiny plastic bib and if you put a hot cup of coffee there you are asking for it. The dash board was shaky it wasn’t fused together in one piece like the Camry, stuffs like that. But the engine-tran is fire-proof.</p>
<p>The domestics need to reenergize a new car craze like the pony and muscle cars of the 60’s. I remember Pontiac Firebirds,Bonneville,GTOs owned the American road. We need a new slew of exciting cars from detroit. Toy Prius canbe taken out easily I think by Volt. </p>
<p>In fact I am very disappointed with Prius. The electric doesnt kick in often and most of the time you are running on noisy, underpowered gas engine. Even combine gas-electric the pwr was not noticeably better. The engine diagram on the dash is a distraction. I am glad I DID NOT BUY a PRIUS.</p>
<p>Aren’t we ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room? Legacy retiree benefits, union rules, wages?
I know the unions are taking steps to forgo the most “politically” distasteful rules, like the jobs bank which just doesn’t play well with the millions of Americns who couldn’t dream of such a protection, but don’t they wtill have a long way to go?
I live in one of those “new Detroit” states, and the Toyotas and Hyundais and Hondas of the world made it work by paying people well, giving them good, solid benefits, and treating them well. It helps the company tremendously to not have those legacy obligations - but what will it do to the economy if the Big 3 just cut them?
The problem with the unions is that enough is never enough, in order to justify their existence they have to always negotiate a slightly better contract for their members to keep their members support the organization. - taken to the extreme, you end up with job rules that make the business non-viable - i saw that growing when my Dad was in the union and with the steel industry around here.</p>
<p>The other big advantage the overseas companies have is that their executives have more realistic expectations about their pay and performance. They are very well paid, but they have a tremendous amount of responsibility, making decisions that affect thousands of people. I don’t think they make the kind of money American executives do, particularly, the golden parachutes and the guarantees that aren’t tied to performance.</p>
<p>I own a 10-year-old Honda; it’s closing in on 190K miles. My previous car was a Honda, which my brother is driving, and my car before that was a Mazda, which I drove into the ground.</p>
<p>I looked at Saturns when I was looking for a new car (so not for at least 10 years), but there wasn’t enough headroom for my now-exH, who is 6’5". (He has a Volkswagon; his previous car was a Volkswagon. Volkswagons have headroom!) In fact, there was scarcely enough room for me, and I’m only 5’10"! </p>
<p>My criteria for cars: enough headroom/legroom for all family members (S is currently about 6’3"), not big (no SUVs or full-sized sedans need apply), good mileage (over 30 MPG in the city), good reliability, good safety rating in its class, and inexpensive. First cuts are always mileage and cost; next is safety rating, then reliability. After that comes the sit (as in, can we all sit in it) test; how many big 3 cars make it to that point? Precious few. Only Saturn the last time I looked… but admittedly, it’s been a while. My Honda keeps going, and going, and going, like an Energizer bunny!</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Didn’t I read that the Volt, if sold right now, would be in the $50,000 range? If that is the case, I don’t think the Prius will be taken out. If they can get the price more competitive, then I DO think the electric car technology will be a good one…especially for folks with a short commute.</p>
<p>We know at least 20 people who own the Prius, and not one of them is dissatisfied with the vehicle. In fact, some have now purchased second Prius cars for their households. Of course, every car has folks who are not happy with the car.</p>
<p>Agreed about the Taurus…a very good car by Ford. What were they thinking when they took that car offline to replace it with the 500…which they then renamed Taurus? Someone in marketing wasn’t looking at what SOLD…and what the consumers LIKED. The old Taurus (and Sable) was a car that many of my friends owned. It was not all that expensive and had the room and comfort they were looking for. It got decent enough gas mileage for its size. In fact, we were thinking about buying one…when they stopped making them.</p>