<p>Right, no. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Toyota makes more cars in the US than GM does. We may not be there, but we’re getting there. Let them fail and just give every American a check for $100 and tell them to go shopping.</p>
<p>Hey parents, futurenyustudent believes America should not care if 4-5 million Americans (workers, suppliers, dealerships, etc.) lose their jobs AND their retirement pensions. Let’s not even mention the trickle-down economic effect this would have on the local businesses (delivery, restaurants, schools, dry cleaners, etc.) that depend on the American automakers. It’s all about Toyota, whose bottom line is profits. American families are on their own to survive.</p>
<p>Futurenyustudent, I’m glad you’re not leading this country. You obviously have no idea what you’re spewing out of your ignorant mouth. ::rolls her eyes::</p>
<p>“…just give every American a check for $100 and tell them to go shopping.” - futurenyustud</p>
<p>futurenyu, for your information, Bush gave everyone $600 (re: economic stimuli package) and it went nowhere.</p>
<p>It sure as hell will do more than giving GM $34 billion. As far as GM goes, I don’t see how a company that lost $43 billion in the past year is going to suddenly turn a profit with a check for $34 billion, which is the only way they’ll pay back the $34 billion loan plus interest. If they can’t come up with a viable plan for turning a profit, then let them go under (and no, more of the same crap is NOT a viable plan, the amount GM lost in the past 3 years is enough to fund a small country). New companies will come and replace it, Toyota and Honda will hire some of them at their true market wage, and the rest will go learn a new skill somewhere. As far as pensions go, what company now gives pensions? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I’m sorry if Michigan’s economy’s going to go down the toilet if GM goes under, but GM is going to keep losing money unless they go through bankruptcy where they can dump the union contracts and pension obligations. People keep saying it’s the union contracts and pension obligations that keep them from making any money-well let’s see how they fare with non-union workers.</p>
<p>Tenighs, doesn’t the Brookings data say, in a nice way, that the Big 3 cannot be competitive with their union obligations as they stand today?
The Big 3 need competent, creative management, with the freedom to make the tough choices necessary to remain competitive. They need to reduce capacity and costs enough to make that older, higher cost workforce viable, or they will be forced to leave Michigan, Ohio, etc altogether.
I see hard times for these states no matter what happens with the bailout, because the well has run dry in the car industry.</p>
<p>Here’s a new article on the catastrophic effects a bankruptcy would have on the American economy:</p>
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<p>[Study:</a> Autos bankruptcy would be ‘catastrophic’ to U.S. | The Detroit News | detnews.com](<a href=“Detroit Local News - Michigan News - Breaking News - detroitnews.com”>Detroit Local News - Michigan News - Breaking News - detroitnews.com)</p>
<p>The Wall Street Journal reviewed the Escalade hybrid this weekend. ROTFLOL. With hybrids like this, who needs gas-guzzlers? The spouse read the review Saturday morning, handed it over to me, and said “and the company that builds this is one we want to bail out?”</p>
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<p>[Cadillac</a> Escalade Hybrid Review Drivers Seat - WSJ.com](<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122841832322680193.html]Cadillac”>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122841832322680193.html) while it’s still available online for free. </p>
<p>yourworld, another consumer who had a bad experience with a Sable. You were lucky you just had a little leak with your radiator hose: ours disintegrated when the car was less than a year old.</p>
<p>We have 2 hondas (and have owned three others over the last 20 years) and find them to be incredibly reliable and great cars.</p>
<p>Having said that, the third car in the garage is a 2006 Ford Mustang that is one of the most fun cars I have ever owned. A blast from the past to drive, very well manufactured, and totally reliable. I’d buy it again in a minute. So Detroit can build cars that appeal to me - they just have to be well engineered and built and clearly designed to fill a need. I have gotten the Ford Focus as a rental car several times in the last year and am also impressed with it - and would consider buying one if I were in the market for a new family car.</p>
<p>GM, on the other hand, just has not produced many cars that appeal to me. I don’t think they need nearly as many brands as they have now - but I don’t think it is the badge name (e.g. Pontiac) that is the issue - it is the lower level models that all blur together. They can have as many badge names as they want - but the models need to clearly fit a niche - and then not overlap. Cadillac, Corvette, even the Hummer - they all have a clear target market - if the market is real, keep making those cars. But at the family car level, they need a heck of a lot more (pardon the pun) Focus.</p>
<p>Do you have a source that is NOT a Detroit newspaper? </p>
<p>It’s $34 billion now, it’ll be $75 billion next year and then $100 billion the year after that. In the long run, GM’s going to keep needing bailouts because they’re not going to jump up and start making money after a $43 billion loss.</p>
<p>The bank bailouts: AIG’s bailout was $85 billion the first time. Next, $130 billion. And they’ll be in Washington asking for more money.</p>
<p>FutureNYUstudent, you do realize the Big Three automakers ARE HEADQUARTERED in Detroit? Why not go straight to the source? Oh yeah that’s right. Everything in Detroit must be wrong. If I wanted to know how well Wall Street was performing in the markets, which newspaper would I browse first? (Hint: WSJ, if you know what that means).</p>
<p>Buy Chrysler and then put that junkmaker out-of-business. If Chysler had already filed for bankruptcy protection, then Ford & GM would have received federal bailout money.</p>
<p>OP - Maybe next time you could pick a less controversial topic, you know like flag burning!</p>
<p>I don’t have the answer to Detroit’s woes, and I sure don’t like any suggestions that have showed up in the news. But perhaps we could look at which vehicles are worth saving, and then see what type of dealer arrangement might best support that. Here’s my list – feel free to add or subtract: Trucks, pickups, vans, SUVs, Corvette, Mustang, Viper, Solstice, Malibu, Crown Victoria, Cadillac sedans, niche cars like Ford’s GT40 and Chrysler’s Challenger, and Chrysler products for the “I don’t care about anything but style” crowd.</p>
<p>We recently rented a Grand Caravan, and I was very impressed with it. It handled and drove very well–a bit of a tendency towards oversteering, but generally very functional–and the interior was extremely well designed to be flexible in carrying passengers and substantial cargo.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t buy one, because I don’t generally have the need for a vehicle of that size, but I would heartily recommend a Focus station wagon to anyone looking for a sensibly-sized, flexible car. Make it a hybrid, and it would be perfect. </p>
<p>I mean, I’d love to be able to drive a high-quality sports car around, but failing that I want practical, reliable, flexible transportation that isn’t guzzling gas and in which I can haul a reasonable amount of stuff and put my dog in the back.</p>
<p>My sister has a Lexus SUV that is certainly a fabulously comfortable ride. But I shudder to think of the amount of gas it burns.</p>
<p>By the way, has anyone addressed the matter of how much foreign manufacturers pay in the way of health care costs for the workers and retirees, vs how much American industrial employers pay? That is, assuming that there are any left?</p>
<p>Health care costs are one of the great variable costs in all American industries… The Auto industry has great imbalances - but so do retail, high tech, and airlines/transportation. I have been against centralized health care for many years but have recently switched my position and now believe that there is no fixing the existing system and that the US must find another answer.</p>
<p>Apparently I’m the only one around here who likes Isuzus. We’ve had three. I have a Trooper now, a shoe box on wheels that gets terrible mileage, but that I am very fond of. My wife has our second Rodeo. RIP for both model lines.</p>
<p>I think Toyota’s hybrid is so much more popular than others because most people who are willing to pay a premium for a hybrid do so because they want to make a statement with it - and that’s what the Prius nameplate does. These folks wouldn’t be caught dead in an SUV! hybrid or not! The other side of the coin is that many SUV-buyers aren’t willing to pay extra for one that is hybrid. If mileage was that important to them then they wouldn’t have wanted an SUV in the first place. GM/Ford would have been much better off with a hybrid-only car than with SUVs that blend right in with the numerous non-hybrids of the same model on the street.</p>