@rhandco - “just” a history degree? After all- what could a major where the primary focuses are: cause/coloration, contextualization, interpretation, synthesis and crafting a persuasive argument be in the modern world?
I was with you on the English majors kicking butt down at the banks(although I’m still scratching my head over whether they really want to be there), but now we’re veering into dangerous territory.
Psychology?!!! I understand why this could very well be true in Marketing, Advertising, and HR, but I would be very careful about giving kids the impression that Psychology is a sought after degree outside of these areas and Psychology itself.
I totally agree with this, and part of this is helping them be prepared in case their original plans don’t pan out. Outside of a few select areas, they’re going to be at a severe disadvantage if they have Psychology as their only major.
There may be people out there who understand the rigor involved in getting a BS in Psychology, but they are not the majority. Most people consider Psychology a fluff degree for kids who want an easy major or who failed out of something harder. Not everyone is a sophisticated hiring manager. There are tons of people out there who screen resumes who are not in HR, and who consider Psychology a lightweight degree. That may be unfair, but it’s the reality of the situation.
I totally agree with you. I don’t think it’s fair if a kid feels pressure to stay at home, but it many cases it’s the best arrangement for everyone. If it doesn’t drive anyone crazy, why not do it for a few years. Once your kids get married and have kids, you’re going to see a lot less of them.
I lived with my mother after college and my best memories of her are from those years. There were times when I wanted my freedom and privacy, and almost moved out, but I’m very glad that I didn’t.
Couldn’t agree more. It can get pricey at a LAC, but I think a double major is a great idea, even if it adds some time to the degree. What’s the rush. There are some courses I still wish I took when I was in college. You can always self-study, but it’s hard when you’re working.
Tons of kids at my son’s LAC double major and they all manage to graduate in four years. I would assume it is similar at other highly selective LACs.
S had a major and a minor and graduated in 4 years, too.
But as long as you don’t mind paying $60K+ for extra year, be my guest.
Good to know. It seems to vary wildly. Maybe not at LACs, but at the schools I’ve looked at, I was surprised at the differences in the core requirements.
Don’t quote me on this, but I think the core requirements for a STEM kid at Fordham amounted to something close to 20 courses. It could be slightly less, but I think it was close to 20.
On the other hand, at Geneseo, which is considered the Liberal Arts college of the SUNY system, I believe it was closer to 10 for a STEM kid - they already had the Math or Science part covered, and the remaining requirements added up to around 10 courses. That makes a double major much easier to accomplish.
This thread is hilarious.
“Psychology as a fluff degree”.
Interesting, I think of Marketing as a fluff degree…
At the very least, it implies to me that the degree candidate has no imagination and does not, or cannot, think outside the box; and despite earning a place in a prestigious environment where intellectual curiosity is valued and fostered, the choice has been made to chuck that all out the window to focus on… how to make money and sell stuff.
Yes, I realize that’s what we all do in the end, once we graduate, but one of the nice things about universities was that, for just four years out of one’s young adult life, one could focus on the bigger questions of life.
Then… upon graduation, use what you’ve learned to… make money and possibly sell stuff, :).
But do we need to start harping on that right off the bat? Apparently enough students and their parents think so…
Sorry, maybe I’m being a little mean, and too honest… but when people start talking about colleges and universities and in the same breath, deride subjects like History and Psychology as “fluff”, while upholding Marketing…
Egads.
I actually agree about the double-majoring and/or major with minor for any degree. Adds some versatility.
There is the psych major from second tier college which is a glorified degree in counseling. Close to no math- one semester of “statistics for the social sciences” which is a “plug and chug” class- the professor puts a formula on the board, the kid does the calculation- boom, kid has now “mastered” statistics. This major is typically prep for a career as a guidance counselor or similar, i.e. heading off to a graduate degree in the helping professions- and these programs typically do not have rigorous requirements.
Then there is the psych major which requires real statistics- being able to manipulate and study large data-sets, some programming and deep knowledge of SAS and/or SPSS and/or R; some cog sci sequence (not counseling, but actually understanding neurology and brain chemistry), potentially some tough econ if the interest is in behavioral economics, or a tough chemistry sequence if the interest is in pharma, epidemiology, or public health.
I don’t hire from the first bucket but love hiring from the second. I read transcripts and know the difference between counseling and neuroscience- as do most recruiting professionals at large corporations.
Agree with you that the distinction may not be well understood elsewhere- but someone is hiring the leisure studies majors, so why not psychology?
I have absolutely no idea what the requirements are for a Marketing degree. I wasn’t saying it was better than Psychology, I just latched on Psychology because I’m more familiar with it.
It seems like a lot of people here don’t regard Marketing very highly. Honestly, I’ve never even thought about it.
I totally agree with you that college should be a time to explore and think about the bigger questions of life. The two courses that had the biggest impact on me as a person were not in my STEM major. But aside from Engineering, I think most majors allow ample time to explore and still come out with some directly applicable skills. And I realize that any major that requires a lot of writing will build an applicable skill.
But I do think it’s important to keep in mind that people will judge you based on your major. Anyone who thinks that doesn’t happen is just being naive. So explore, absolutely, but try to get something on that resume that will be valuable in many people’s eyes. That’s what I’m going to stress to my kids.
“I think of Marketing as a fluff degree”… Yeah- because businesses really don’t care about seeing stuff to people… Btw- bureau of labor statistics (found with a quick Google search) predicted that jobs related to marketing were predicted to grow 32% between 2012 and 2022
I agree. I took a look around, and the requirements for a Psychology degree vary quite a bit from school to school.
At schools that offer a BA and a BS, the BS is clearly the type that you like to hire. I even looked at state universities, and one of them had a very rigorous BS program.
One surprise though - the LACs that I looked at had only one option, and it looked equivalent to the BA at a state school in course requirements. One that I looked at was Williams. Only 10 courses required, all in the Psychology department itself.
I guess it’s not really that surprising. This is true in CS and probably most other majors, too. Also, I’m not too worried about the kid at Williams, but they would have to take a lot of courses beyond the minimum requirements to have a transcript equivalent to a kid coming out of a BS program at a research university. But like I said, the same would be true of CS and probably most other majors.
Are there any majors at LACs that typically require 15 - 20 courses, like you would find at a big university?
Re #189
Yes, there are many jobs in marketing, but they are not exclusive to those with marketing degrees. That is the difference between most business fields other than accounting and fields where specific college majors are highly useful or necessary.
Re #190
Degree title BA versus BS is not a reliable indicator of degree program quality or rigor.
Not in psych, but in anthro I got a BS instead of a BA. The requirements for the BS degree were the same for psych as anthro for my undergrad (they were general requirements, not major-specific). What did I take to fulfill that BS? Some bio and physics classes. Never took a math (tested out of stats and calc).
My best friend, otoh, from a tech uni got a BS in psych and was required to take very high level stats classes.
A BS means nothing other than you fulfilled that uni’s reqs for that degree. What those reqs are varies by uni.
I agree. I wasn’t saying you can blindly look at the degree title to determine rigor or quality, but at a given school, or at least the one I looked at (Stony Brook), the BS requires the types of courses that @blossom said she looks for on transcripts. The BA does not, or at least not as many of those types of courses.
Binghamton offers only a BA, but the BA requires 15 - 16 course (can’t remember) compared to 10 at Williams and Muhlenberg.
And one doesn’t always necessarily need an accounting major so long as one has taken enough accounting courses up to the minimum mandated for each state.
A HS classmate was recruited into a Big-4 accounting firm from an elite U with an Asian lit major and was told they’d pay for her accounting classes so she’d be able to sit for the CPA exam which she passed on the first try without issues*.
Also know a recent Philosophy graduate from a top 60 U who is working on fulling his 150 hr requirement by taking a 1 year accounting graduate program so he can be eligible to sit for the CPA exam.
- Something I found noteworthy as I recalled several sources back in the '90s stating that it wasn't unusual for CPA examinees to need multiple re-takes to pass the CPA exam. Granted, one factor was this took place before the 150 hour rule was put into place in the late '90s.
True, accounting does not require any specific major, but CPA requirements tend to specify a significant amount of course work that it is likely that only someone choosing courses with the goal of fulfilling CPA requirements will complete them (regardless of major). That is rather different from other business fields where many people who do not have business majors (or subtypes of business majors like marketing) or course work do move into such business fields in their work careers.
There are lots of fields where psychologists work. Insurance companies/financial institutions have learned that opt-out is a different function than opt-in. If you tell employees that they will have X amount deducted from their paychecks for their retirement contribution but they can fill out a form so that they won’t have that deduction… vs. asking them to fill out a form in order to GET the payroll deduction- the participation rates are meaningfully different.
It took psychologists with a strong statistical training to pore through studies, set up simulations and tests, evaluate meta-data from other fields, etc. to learn the best way to encourage the behaviors you want (saving for retirement) and discourage the behaviors you don’t want (spending your entire paycheck every month at Best Buy and Starbucks). Same for other behaviors- dieting for example. You don’t think Weight Watchers hires Psych majors? Smoking, smoking cessation. Dating algorithms, Ebay, hospitality/casino/restaurants. Every single retail chain. The people who figured out that a few cookies packed in a bag labeled “100 calories” is much more profitable than an entire bag of cookies since the people with low impulse control buy LOTS of 100 calorie bags of cookies. Less product, more volume, bigger profits. Ever buy something from a fast- food chains dollar menu?
But you can’t be thinking “I want to be a guidance counselor” if you’re interested in the intersection of behavior, brain chemistry, and economic activity.
I don’t like it when people dump on Psych majors. They are clearly folks who have never lit a cigarette after promising to stop; never lost $100 at a blackjack table; never eaten dessert at a restaurant even when they are already full; never bought a $100 item they didn’t need because it came with a $15 gift card (which by the way came out of extensive testing to validate which offer is more profitable- 20% off your purchase? Nope- folks can’t calculate percentages. So even though it costs less for the chain to offer a $15 gift card- since 15 is less than 20- most shoppers prefer the 15 bucks.)
As we speak there are teams of psychologists working to unravel the problem of people who don’t take their medication properly; people who know they have high blood pressure but don’t follow their doctors orders on diet and exercise; people who have unprotected sex even though they know they are putting themselves at risk for a bunch of unwelcome outcomes.
But these folks all know math, statistics, can develop and interpret a regression analysis, can understand the difference between a small scale study of X participants vs. X times a million participants.
I love hiring Psych majors!
My mom’s first job out of college 65 years ago was as an Industrial Psychologist. At the time she didn’t need an advanced degree, That has probably changed.
Here are the average salaries now.
http://www.allpsychologycareers.com/salary/industrial-organizational-psychology-salary.html
A team of very smart psychologists taught the cellphone companies that if you price your service a buck a minute, only doctors, lawyers, and drug dealers will buy cellphones. Once you offer “unlimited calling” at a fixed price, every 14 year old in America will own a cellphone.
Etc.
But reply #187 indicates that you only like hiring them from certain schools, correct?