I didn’t really look at any OOS publics - my kid really wanted a smaller school, because she feels like such a nameless faceless number in her big bureaucratic high school. And when I ran the NPCs originally, our price at privates was better than the price at a public would have been.
I really liked Rochester, particularly the Take Five program. I don’t remember what idiosyncratic kid preference kicked it off - too big, it looks like maybe.
Skidmore wasn’t as ethnically diverse as she wanted (I had a formula that produced a score; her high school got a .55, Skidmore got a 0.51). Brandeis fell off due to reputed dorm and food quality. Basically, she gave me a bunch of arbitrary criteria, and I gave her back a list of schools that fit them, then she refined from there. There are enough coed schools that you can be pretty arbitrary in cutting down to a manageable number.
Tax season cometh, and with it another crack at the NPCs. This is our freshman year base year. No bonus for me, but my spouse’s company had a very good year and gave enormous bonuses. New tax law significantly decreased our tax liability. Those two combined bumped our family contribution up significantly, to the point that it was time to have a more specific money talk with our kid.
I said:
My goal in this conversation is to manipulate you into doing what I want you to do.
We are still able to pay for college out of savings and cash flow, and there are no schools that have become unaffordable or are off the table because of the change in NPC results.
Agnes Scott with guaranteed merit has become much cheaper by comparison, but we have no plans to require or even pressure you to choose the cheapest option.
Competitive merit money exists at Mount Holyoke, Smith, and Bryn Mawr, and that money was unlikely to make a bit of difference compared to need based aid last year, but now that this year’s numbers are in, we think merit money might result in a lower family cost.
Wellesley does not offer any merit scholarships, and if you get merit money from any of the other three, Wellesley is likely to be significantly more expensive. If you raise your test scores significantly in order to increase your odds of merit, that’s also likely to increase your odds of acceptance to Wellesley.
If you raise your test scores significantly in order to increase your odds of merit, it’s likely that Mount Holyoke would be enough of an admissions safety that you wouldn’t need to use Agnes Scott as a safety.
Competitive merit, like admissions, is unpredictable. It’s possible you won’t get any merit money regardless of what you do. That’s okay.
We are still able to pay for college out of savings and cash flow, and there are no schools that have become unaffordable or are off the table, regardless of whether you get any merit money.
She said:
I should take the SAT and ACT seriously and study, then. Can you give me an idea of what scores I should aim for?
I don’t dislike Agnes Scott and plan to apply there even if my scores go up a lot.
I really appreciate that you’re talking to me like an adult, so I know what’s going on and can be part of the decision making process.
I really appreciate that you aren’t taking Wellesley off the table, and that the decision won’t be based solely on money. I really like Wellesley a lot from what I’ve read, and would like to do an overnight in the fall.
My guess, based on the 75th percentile numbers on the NPCs, is that 1500 / 34 are reasonable target numbers for “you have a decent chance to get some merit money from at least one of Mount Holyoke, Smith, or Bryn Mawr.” I don’t know that those are attainable, though; she’s an unlucky guesser on multiple choice tests. And that’s fine; the tax savings and bonus money will get transferred into the college savings pot, the projected increase in which has already been factored into the NPCs.
Also, I am really looking forward to 2022, the first year that will not be a financial aid base year.
In the Spring, a young person’s fancy lightly turns to thoughts of self-doubt. Maybe next year I’ll be interested in coed colleges. Maybe I won’t be able to handle the ambitious senior year schedule I’m planning. Maybe I should drop orchestra and have a free period.
So, add coed schools back to the list? What’s your best case scenario there? Minimal additional applications, only schools I’ll love as much as Mount Holyoke and Smith, I don’t care if there are men in the dorms or even on campus, but I might change my mind and like to have some of them in class. Bryn Mawr and take more classes at Haverford? Oh, yeah, I forget you could take all your classes there if you wanted. That would work! Never mind.
Apparently some random comment I made caused her to doubt her next year’s schedule. Your schedule is fine. You will be fine. Go talk to the teachers you’ll have and ask them about handling the workload. Practice good sleep hygiene.
There’s no good solution to the orchestra issue, which is really a personality issue with the orchestra teacher.
She finally went to talk to the the biggest unknown - the AP Chem teacher who is new to the school this year. “Oh, you’re [physics teacher’s] Physics 2 student! AP Chem will be fun and easy for you.” Rumor mill says that he’s not preparing current students well for the AP test; turns out this is his first year teaching and he has no formal teacher training, but does have a PhD in Biochem. A year of fun chemistry with a smart teacher she likes and who likes chemistry, and no expectation of doing well on the AP exam, sounds like a good plan.
So the requested schedule is:
Orchestra
AP Lit (recommended for anyone with a passing score on the AP Lang test; kid is expecting a 4 or better based on feedback from her teacher, who is an AP grader)
AP Calc BC (recommended for anyone with an A or B in Honors Pre-calc; AB is recommended for anyone with a C in Honors Pre-calc)
AP Physics C Mechanics (taught as a year-long class by kid’s current physics teacher)
AP Chem
AP US Gov (taught as a year-long class by kid’s 10th grade APUSH teacher)
Wow, that sounds like way too much, especially combining AP physics C and AP chem AND keeping in mind she’ll be a senior preparing college applications (=equivalent to an additional, writing intensive class)
Check that it’s AP US gov and not AP gov (US+ comparative).
Like the Harvard man, you can always tell my kid, but you can’t tell her much. Having heard about her interaction with the Chem teacher, I’m actually less worried about next year than I was about her sophomore year, when she had a similarly unwise schedule and the teachers were all unknown quantities. One of those turned out to be a dud, and another merely okay.
It’s just US Gov. AP Comp Gov is a different full-year course. She picked US over Comp in part because she really likes the teacher, and is familiar with the workload that teacher expects in an AP class.
Only five applications (Wellesley / Smith / Mount Holyoke / Bryn Mawr / Agnes Scott), and the current versions of their apps are not particularly writing heavy. No outside scholarship / competitive scholarship apps. If she were applying to ten schools, or applying to more schools with multiple essays each, or chasing competitive merit, or weren’t a strong writer, I’d worry more.
Fortunately for everyone’s sanity, her school only does whole letter grades (no +/-), and kid is mostly indifferent to grades and class rank. Physics 1 really beat the perfectionism out of her. A B or two at midterm would not be the end of the world.
What about a safety? (financial as well as admissions). Is there an unmentioned backup app to an in-state public to fill that spot? Or are you confident that you can afford the schools listed even if anticipated merit aid doesn’t come through). (I wouldn’t even put Agnes Scott as a “safety” – more a very highly likely match. The problem is that small colleges sometimes make some quirky decisions with higher stat applicants tied to yield protection – so probably also very important to show her love along the way).
No point in having a safety she won’t attend; I think it’s more likely she’d do a gap year abroad (language immersion with overseas relatives) if she didn’t get in to any of those five. She really wants a women’s college with four years of Chinese and a physics major, and there aren’t many options there. (ASC does not have four years of Chinese, but I felt like she needed to compromise some in the name of risk management. I agree completely with the love, and fortunately they have the most extensive essays, all of which are essentially asking “Why ASC?”)
All of the schools are 100% affordable with no parent borrowing assuming a reasonably accurate NPC, and we have a straightforward situation: wages, cash in the bank, both legal parents married to each other. The only reason merit is even a consideration is that we’re right at the tipping point where merit could possibly be a better answer than need-based aid, and it’s administratively more convenient to get merit aid.
Remind me why Scripps fell out of favor? (Seems to meet the stated criteria rather well.) Though, it seems more than likely she’ll have good options from that list, so no reason she can’t just like what she likes…
Seasons, and vast shady green lawns. And I think their online videos didn’t speak to her the way the other schools’ did. Pretty much the same story with Barnard. I also think she saw the close integration with (a) coed school(s) as more a bug than a feature.
@allyphoe FWIW, my daughter took both AP Chem and AP Physics C (both mechanics and E&M) senior year along with a full load of other AP and DE courses and was just fine. Depends on the kid and the teachers.
I haven’t read the whole thread but your kid sounds great. If this has been said before, I apologize, but I will say this about acceptance rates at women’s colleges: you really can’t just look at the number in comparison to co-ed schools. It not only omits half the population of applicants, women’s colleges tend to appeal to a certain type of woman, and often that type is high-achieving and studious. *
That said, I suspect she has a great shot. I’d take her! Also wanted to add that IME Bryn Mawr is the most generous with merit aid, followed by MoHo and IDK about Agnes Scott. Smith only has a handful, Wellesley none. I can give you specifics in DMs if you want.
*Not to suggest that women at co-eds aren’t high-achieving!
@aquapt Also, Scripps is right up there between Smith and Wellesley in RD admissions rates, so I don’t think she’d be improving her odds of admission any by adding it. If it were more of a match, I’d have encouraged more love for Scripps.
@calmom She’ll also apply EA1 to Agnes Scott, so can expect a decision 12/15. If for some reason she’s rejected, there will be a little time to regroup. And I’ve been running the NPCs with the cash we expect to have in the bank after another 9-12 months of saving, and not planning for any decrease as we spend down. So I think there’s as much margin for safety built in as we can reasonably get.
Ok-- sounds like you have things figured out. I was a little bit misled by the references to merit aid. I’d be very surprised if she does not get accepted to Agnes Scott, but after all these years on CC I’ve seen enough surprises to know not to take anything for granted. But probably more likely that your daughter’s carefully curated list of 5 colleges will end up with 5 acceptances.
@PetraMC My kid really is great! She is the best teenager a parent could ever want. And yeah, the self-selection part of admission percentages means I’ll worry until she has an acceptance in hand, even though I think it’s reasonable to expect more than one.
Agnes Scott has guaranteed merit for her current test scores and [current grades plus straight B’s first semester senior year] GPA. Definitely the cheapest option by far, most convenient to get to, super-diverse student body, IMHO the best hand-holding for setting yourself up for after-college success. Lots of plusses there.
Wellesley is most expensive, but not by a huge amount, even with no merit at any of the other schools. And the reality is that we have the ability and willingness to pay, if it comes down to it.
@calmom That was me being greedy more than me grasping at a possibility of affordability. I have some limited ability to shift income between years, and merit would mostly mean that there would be no reason to try to do that - we really are at the tipping point where most schools would be in the same ballpark either way. And not having an incentive to try to shift income would be good, because I was not very successful for 2018!
I think MoHo is so underrated. I hope she goes there! And vote for best all around campus.
My time in the area (many a weekend with a romantic interest and her friends hanging out and/or studying) always thought it was an awesome place with smart but approachable students. Do they still have horses?
@allyphoe I had definitely read bits of this thread at different times but just went back and read all the way through and I have to hand it to you-- in addition to hitting it out of the park as parent during this process, you are also a hilarious writer. Really enjoying your insights, decisions, and interactions with your D! As a parent who is also treating this like a hobby (with spreadsheets to prove it), I’m grateful for these posts! Keep 'em coming!
I have some limited ability to shift income between years, and merit would mostly mean that there would be no reason to try to do that - we really are at the tipping point where most schools would be in the same ballpark either way. And not having an incentive to try to shift income would be good, because I was not very successful for 2018!