<p>My daughter picked up a double major for much the same reason the OP notes. During her junior year, she realized that she only needed to take three additional courses, and one additional core course to add a biology major to her bioengineering major. She had to get approval from the college of arts and sciences to do so (she was a college of engineering student). She is happy she noticed this possibility.</p>
<p>DS- a soon to be HS senior has an internship at a major techie think tank. He’s been reading a boatload of papers from the high level, many letters after name folks. His comment…can’t ANYONE write anymore.</p>
<p>The point being…writing, in whatever subcategory (Creative, Technical, Research) is becoming a lost are in some of the techie world. I think it’s a great idea to couple it (don’t know about the value of a minor) with whatever technical degree you pursue.</p>
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<p>I somewhat answered that in my previous post:
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<p>I want a second option if this does happen. Though I would love for someone to tell me I’m wrong about that.</p>
<p>The courses I need beyond what is covered within the computer science major to fulfill the math degree requirements are as follows:
B.A. in regular Math: Differential Equations and any MATH course numbered above 500.
B.S. in Applied Math: Differential Equations and three of the following: Advanced Calculus II, Functions of a Complex Variable with Applications, Elementary Differential Equations, Mathematical Methods for the Physical Sciences I, Mathematical Methods for the Physical Sciences II, Combinatorial Mathematics, Mathematical Modeling.</p>
<p>@Oldfort: I’m not a hardcore programmer. I’m not even a programmer; at this point I only know HTML and CSS. Technology interests me in its artistic potential–not in its technical nature. I’m not exactly looking to be someone who sits at a desk and writes code all the time; I’m looking to be someone who integrates creativity and technology (hence my interest in video game design). I’m interested more in software architecture and design than I am software engineering. That said, what do you suggest?</p>
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<p>You may want to check the web sites of graduate math departments. It is likely that they will want to see a set of core advanced math courses like linear algebra, abstract algebra, real analysis, complex analysis, plus math electives applicable to your focus area as a math graduate student. CS theory courses like complexity theory and theory of computation could be applicable if that would be your focus area as a math graduate student.</p>
<p>Given your description of the BA vs. BS math degree programs, the BA program would likely give you more flexibility in choosing math and related courses, although you would likely want to take more math courses than the minimum that it specifies.</p>
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<p>Many of the core CS concepts about algorithms, operating systems, compilers, etc. do not become obsolete. Specific programming languages and vendor or proprietary technologies do become obsolete. If you have knowledge of the core CS concepts and the ability to think logically in the way that computer professionals need to, then self-educating for new technologies and programming languages should not be excessively difficult, and is expected as you go through a career as a computer professional. (Yes, it is preferable if the CS courses do not all use the same programming language; see [The</a> Perils of JavaSchools - Joel on Software](<a href=“http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ThePerilsofJavaSchools.html]The”>The Perils of JavaSchools – Joel on Software) .)</p>
<p>Ucbalumnus raised some good points, many core CS concept do not become obsolete. I would suggest for you to look at courses you have taken to see what interests you the most and take additional higher level courses. You may find that CS isn’t for you(you haven’t taken that many CS courses yet). D1 was a math major, but she realized getting a PhD in math wasn’t in the cards for her. After working for a year, she is evaluating if it’s something she wants do for the long term. </p>
<p>I have shared my opinion on BS va BA, and other parents have different opinion. I don’t think you could go wrong one way or another. You sound like a bright kid and would probably do well anyway. If I were to hire someone, I don’t think it would really matter if someone has a BA or BS in CS, but a BA would allow you to take more electives.</p>
<p>I agree with JHS, get the BS in Comp Sci. That’s the degree and the set of courses the top employers will be looking for. It’s pretty irrelevant if you get minors on top of this. Yes, take the creative writing. If there are extra math course you want to take fine, take them. But some of the best courses I took in college were the one off courses. Best course I ever took? Landscape Painting of the Sung Dynasty. But I didn’t need to be an Art History minor. My best friend who has had five novels published, majored in Music, but took all the creative writing courses she could. It’s not that there’s anything wrong with a minor, but sometimes the minor forces you to take courses you don’t really want to take. Instead of taking the three courses in Art History you want to take, you have to take three more you didn’t really care for. </p>
<p>Saw your second post and I say, you’ll probably have to take more Comp Sci before you know what is right for you. It’s not a decision you have to make right away anyway.</p>
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What does a math degree qualify you to do that a CS degree does not?</p>
<p>(Don’t get me wrong, math is a great degree. But a BS in math isn’t the world’s most directly applicable credential.)</p>
<p>There is a big market for technical writers. Just sayin’</p>
<p>As a long time technical recruiter and hiring manager, I often viewed a bachelor level candidate touting a double major as not proficient in either. I further believe it’s a sign of immaturity and/or bad judgement that is generally practiced by self-promoting status seekers. (Read: Bad hires). </p>
<p>And I assure you: I am not alone in this opinion.</p>
<p>How do you determine if someone is proficient enough at a bachelor level? If someone had a math degree, would it be that person has taken set number of math courses? Or would it be when that person has taken 70% of his courses in math? Unless a student is majoring in a particular trade - nursing, business, accounting, engineering…he is not going to be proficient in any particular major, that’s why they go to graduate schools. </p>
<p>D1 had enough APs from her high school, it was very easy for her to double major. She met all of her school’s requirements for those majors. I guess what you are saying is if my daughter just majored in math, and took more electives instead of focusing more on economic, then her math degree would have been more credible. Or are you saying because her school allowed double majors, then her degree wasn’t as meaningful?</p>
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<p>Why would this be the case? Students with one major take what is required for their major (and rarely more) plus electives. If the electives happen to qualify one for another major, how does that indicate less proficiency in the first one? A lot of common double major combinations can take advantage of considerable overlap.</p>
<p>For the OP: Not all employers are looking for exactly the same thing and there are many paths to a good career in CS. A double major in math might make you more attractive to some employers, but these will be the ones that have tasks that can use those skills. </p>
<p>Also, the way to avoid technical obsolescence is to get a good foundation (a solid CS degree) and expect to continue to learn new techologies/languages, etc. on your own during your career. Maybe take an on-line class or two, or even get a masters. </p>
<p>Creative writing is one area where a credential matters very little. Take writing courses when you can and write. Try to get published.</p>
<p>Also, it might not be as easy to double major as you think:
From the UNC site
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<p>I vote for option C, or even just getting a BA in CS, since a BA is more flexible.</p>
<p>Some of my opinions (others have repeated some of these):</p>
<ol>
<li><p>There is very little difference between a BA and a BS - the difference lies in what courses YOU CHOOSE to take. You can make a BA as hard as you want, really, through the choice of classes to take. Grad schools will see no difference in a BA vs a BS. They will, however, see the specific classes you took.</p></li>
<li><p>I spoke to someone at EA Games once, and he went to a very low-tier college (certainly not UNC-level) and said that the #1 qualification that employers are looking for is a portfolio of video games you have created and designed yourself (or with partners) - even simple, basic games. Also, a key programming language to learn is C++, which is used at most large gaming studios and is related to (but not strictly used for) iPhone programming. You don’t have to learn it right now, though, since C++ is one of the tougher programming languages to learn (and you will probably eventually take a class that teaches you it)</p></li>
<li><p>Whether or not you get a writing minor has no effect other than your own personal enrichment.</p></li>
<li><p>A CS major can get into almost any jobs that a math major can - finance, consulting, statistics analysis, etc…</p></li>
<li><p>The whole idea that your CS degree will be obsolete is untrue. Your degree will have a plenty of theory and math and computer architecture, concepts that have not changed for decades. Not surprisingly, most discrete math and probability has not changed in 50 years. Most computer architecture relies on some very fundamental concepts. The UNIX operating system, the foundation for the Linux OS and Mac OS, has been around for 40 years. I think you’re under the impression that CS changes so quickly because of the whole social media / mobile / Web 2.0 or 3.0 revolution. However, those are examples of how computer applications change quickly. Actual computing concepts change slowly.</p></li>
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<p>Java has been around for 17 years. C++ for 33 years. Python for 21 years. The youngest “popular” programming language I can find is C#, which is 11 years old. And after your first programming language, it takes you maybe a weekend to learn the syntax for any other language, and maybe a month to gain true mastery.</p>
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<li><p>Instead of a math major, just take a couple of math classes you find interesting and relevant - that way, you will reap whatever benefit you think you will have when it comes to interviewing, without wasting time on classes that might be irrelevant.</p></li>
<li><p>After graduating, I believe you cannot re-enter and get a second bachelors.</p></li>
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<p>Oldfort, I really, truly did not mean to impugn your daughter’s character. I did mean to warn kids that not everyone thinks it’s a great idea to have two majors and a minor, and this thread proves I am not alone in that. If you read what kids write on CC, you see that, just as many do not understand that SAT scores and number of AP classes do not equate to quality, many do not understand that more majors and minors are not more impressive than fewer.</p>
<p>I almost make an exception for math/econ or math/CS (or bio/bioengineering, or math/physics), since with those fields there is so much overlap that the difference is usually only 2-3 courses that relate directly to the student’s main area of interest. And I absolutely, positively encourage everyone to take courses like mathmom’s one-off in Sung Dynasty Landscape Painting, or clusters of courses in a secondary interest area. (My own life direction was absolutely changed by taking Microeconomics and a handful of accounting courses.) But calling that a “minor” doesn’t make it more impressive.</p>
<p>The OP seems to believe that having a math major in addition to his CS major will somehow function as a hedge against computer gaming industry instability. It won’t. His CS degree will be fine as a credential for “math-y” jobs or graduate programs, as long as he actually knows the math he needs to know. If he doesn’t know that math, even an official math major won’t rescue him.</p>
<p>Agree with JHS, toblin, and mathmom. But interesting to read opposing arguments.</p>
<p>And “wifty” seems like a really cool word.</p>
<p>“Wifty” is an awesome word - hadn’t heard it in years! - signed, former Philadelphian</p>
<p>Only if you are from Philadelphia.</p>
<p>I think if you look at how many CS courses have taken and what he has taken, it is premature for him to jump into BS in CS. Mathmom’s kid knew he wanted to do CS since he was in high school. I don’t see it for OP at the moment. He also said he didn’t want to write code as his career. He sees it as a tool for creating graphic and design.</p>
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<p>This is really dependent on the prejudices/biases of the particular recruiter/hiring manager and his/her anti-intellectual inclinations. </p>
<p>Most who I’ve worked with/know don’t care or will only feel that way if the job candidate gives an impression the double major/multiple minors were taken solely/mostly for resume building reasons rather than a genuine passion/deep intellectual interest in those fields. From what they told me and from my own experience, it’s not too hard to suss this out within the first 5-10 minutes. </p>
<p>Wasn’t a problem for college/classmates who had widely disparate double-majors such as a colleague/supervisor who was a CS/English Lit double major, EE/US history HS classmate who works in a major computer technology firm with a household name, a college classmate with 3 majors and just one course short of a 4th in math, or the fact I had 1 major and two minors.</p>
<p>D2 wants to double major in Philosophy and Economics - law school if all goes well, otherwise finance. I think it would work.</p>
<p>I did say after reading the OP’s second post that he/she didn’t need to jump into a BS. I think they need to actually see how much they like real CS courses before they know for sure what combination of courses is going to be best.</p>
<p>I think wifty is a word that we should get spread outside the Philadelphia area. I challenge everyone to start using it!</p>
<p>My sister and I use the word “wifty” almost daily- usually in reference to our elderly mother who has some dementia. I didn’t realize it was a Philadelphia-thing. </p>
<p>signed, </p>
<p>Raised in Philadelphia</p>