Who graduated in 2012 and still doesn't have a job?

Little_Mother · October 22, 2012, 12:10pm

I second squiddy’s advice to network. In the past, the best hires I’ve made were people to whom I had given informational interviews. And don’t be afraid to ask people in your field whom you don’t know for an interview; all they can say is, “no,” and they just might say yes. Also, check the on-line alumni directory for your alma mater for folks who could provide advice. If there’s a professional organization for your field, see about joining it to gain access to the job listings.

Temping can also provide networking opportunities. Nowadays, many companies are going with temps for interim positions so they don’t have to worry about benefits. And there’s a need for temps in a wide variety of fields. You might even end up getting an offer.

Good luck!

GoalsOriented · October 22, 2012, 5:47pm

“The world doesn’t owe me a living, and I’m willing to work hard for what I want.”

Are you implying that not every law-abiding citizen is morally entitled to a job (as long as they actually fulfill their responsibilities) that compensates enough to allow them safety, health, and at least a fair level of inexpensive recreational activity?

notaznguy · October 22, 2012, 6:53pm

“Are you implying that not every law-abiding citizen is morally entitled to a job (as long as they actually fulfill their responsibilities) that compensates enough to allow them safety, health, and at least a fair level of inexpensive recreational activity?”

You’re not entitled to anything in life. Okay? This is the real world, not your poli sci or philosophy 101 class.

Squiddy · October 22, 2012, 11:30pm

Oh, absolutely - I think you should just march yourself into the employer of your choice, whether they’re hiring or not, and tell them you’re entitled to a job there, doing whatever you choose, and tell them the salary and benefits they’re going to pay you, and then check back here and let us know how that works out for you.

You’re entitled to the air you breathe, you’re entitled to learn skills that an employer is willing to pay you to exercise on their behalf, and you’re entitled to sell your services directly to the marketplace - whether as an employee or to be self-employed/start your own business. (But be careful if you do start your own business, because someone is no doubt going to demand you hire anyone that asks for a job whether you need them or can afford to pay them.)

But you’re not entitled, except in an abstract way, to the job of your choice, just because you think you’re entitled to It. Nor are employers responsible for hiring everyone who walks in their door, whether they actually can afford to hire them or not.

Devolving this discussion into some abstract discussion about whether people are “morally entitled” to a job won’t do a thing to help those looking for a job find one. I’m only trying to help, and my point was, and remains - an employer wants a track record that indicates you’d be a good employee with a strong work ethic. And lacking an employment history in the field of your choice, it’s better to have a track record of earning a paycheck doing something than a history of doing nothing.

GoalsOriented · October 22, 2012, 11:33pm

notaznguy: I certainly didn’t need a philosophy or political science 101 class to develop the moral principles that separate some of us from animals. On top of that, my political science and philosophy intro classes (or any of my education before or during college for that matter) did not even promote human morality in the first place. I developed moral principles from things called independent thinking, empathy, compassion, and reasoning.

squiddy: I responded to how you phrased your message. If you did not intend to convey the statement you seemed to be making (you specifically said “a living,” not “this job” or “a living with this job”) due to its wording, don’t blame me - just say that you actually did not mean it that way. As for me, I never tried to convey that a specific individual is entitled to a specific job legally, ethically, or morally. However, I will say that every individual as I described (law-abiding citizen) is morally (not legally, as our society is today) entitled to A job that provides a minimum quality-of-life.

That individual comment you made was worded in a broad manner, so I asked you a broad question. And no, being morally entitled to a job and/or stating that does not help a person. Neither does stating a person is not morally entitled to a job (which I guess you are saying you did not say - that was my question in the first place).

notaznguy · October 23, 2012, 12:36am

GoalsOriented: Grow up. This is the real world dude. Whatever philosophical or moral motto you learned in university doesn’t apply here.

Squiddy is right. The world owes nobody anything. You have to earn what you want. And why are you even arguing this? This is stupid. Stop trying to instigate somebody who is giving employment advice.

And for the record, you were not SIMPLY asking a broad question with the intent of clarifying a comment you did not understand. You used straw man reasoning with the intent of discrediting what Squiddy wrote because it morally offended you.

chrisw · October 23, 2012, 9:04am

Squiddy, I can’t agree with you more about the job vs. career thing - when I was going through recruitment senior year, I made a major point of saying right in my cover letter that I was looking for a career, not a two-year bridge to another career. That meant something to quite a few recruiters.

As for when you become profitable, I also agree there. At my company, I don’t become useful until I’ve been around for more than six months - my billing rate was $0 for the first six, before it became the standard associate’s rate. This meant that I was costing my company salary, benefits, taxes, office space and expense reimbursement whenever I was on client site, while I was bringing in exactly $0.00 in revenue. I would estimate that it takes roughly one full year for my company to break even on a new hire, especially one right out of college. Losing someone within that first year is something they VERY actively try to avoid (provided that someone is a qualified individual and didn’t just manage to squeak through all of the controls that prevent unqualified people from getting offers).

ElleB11 · October 23, 2012, 3:19pm

I live in the Midwest, and I graduated in December 2011 with a B.S. in Fashion Merchandising. I wanted to work in an office supporting a brand… but not sure or picky about which position or company I started off at. I left my intern/assistant job at an accessories wholesaler because I was there for a year and a half doing mostly busy work and didn’t feel as if I was learning or advancing. I was also getting paid close to minimum wage and needed more because I was graduating and had lots of bills to pay.

I started working part-time for a retailer doing visual merchandising and moved quickly into the management position. But still only working part-time… and still applying for jobs everyday. Multiple jobs everyday. I got A LOT of interviews for entry-level positions in the field, but NO OFFERS. This year alone, I’ve interviewed easily over 30x for 30 different companies.

In April, the retailer I was working at announced that they would be discontinuing the visual team that I managed, so I found full-time work for a temp agency, immediately. Till this day, I’ve been temping at the same company, but not really doing much work while I’m here. I want to learn and grow and it’s really bothering me that I’m not getting anywhere.

I continued working part-time at the retailer while I work my full-time temp position but decided to part ways from the retailer because of changes with the positions being offered. Then I found another part-time job at a different retailer but it was only a temporary job for a new store opening. So I did that for a few more months while still actively seeking for a job and working full-time temporarily.

I get called for interviews from time to time for entry-level positions and go to all of them. Do my best… and write thank you letters right after. Have never had an offer. I’ve had an interviewer tell me that my ideas were too “green” and have had another one tell me that I don’t know what I want to really do in life. Also have had another one tell me they don’t see that I possess any necessary skills or experiences for the job I was interviewing for… But why even waste either of our times interviewing me if all of this could already be realized by reading my resume? I’m sorry I don’t have any real answers. You know why? Because I’ve never had a real job. Just hoping someone out there will give me chance.

Mysonsdad · October 24, 2012, 8:52am

Is there anything wrong with starting with a company (ie retail) while going to school and then working your way up in that company. I’m kinda focusing in on business majors here, but am I too out of touch? I always tell my kids to get a job, go to school, work your butt off, and when it comes time for promotions in your company you are already know. It may take longer to get the job you want, but so what? Am I off base here?

My daughter has volunteered in a hospital for 4 years, she is currently taking EMT classes. They told her when she is done she is first one to be hired. It is not what you know but who you know.

I wanted a job one time with a company. I spent a whole summer looking for potentional clients. I showed up to the company I wanted to work for one day and told them,“I just spent 3 months getting potential clients, I need a place to work, when do I start?” (I know, a little over the top, but they already knew I wanted a job there, I wouldn’t recommend doing this the first time you meet someone). I got hired within two weeks after that.

ScorpioRising · October 24, 2012, 10:43am

I am the Chief Nursing Officer with a community hospital in the midwest. There is a glut of talent right now and not enough economic recovery, at least in our region, to support hiring, other than positions vacated. It is common for me to have RN applicants with over a year’s worth of un- or under-employment. Most of them are tied to this area through marriage, etc. and that is part of their problem.

Geographic relocation must be considered if possible. I would have pumped gas to stay in the work force. Every region has different gaps as far as talent needed.

Good luck, some very good advice about making contacts, etc. here.

Cobra392 · October 24, 2012, 10:54am

@Elle - Are you using LinkedIn? It’s not a cure-all, but it’s definitely a necessity.

Squiddy · October 24, 2012, 5:30pm

@ElleB11, sorry you’re having a hard time of it, I’m sure it’s frustrating and not a little depressing, but hang in there - a couple of silver linings in your post;

<ul>
<li>over 30 interviews - that says something good to me - that your resume is good enough to get you past the initial screen, and</li>
<li>that there are that many positions companies hiring for that many positions.</li>
</ul>

Always try to learn something from the interviews - in fact, take interviews for jobs you don’t even want for practice. And while it can seem a bit soul-crushing, carefully examine anything the interviewer says to you, both positive and negative. Take note of the questions they ask, and consider whether you might give a better answer next time its asked.

And if you can get past the personnel office and actually interview with someone in the field you want to work in, consider asking them directly for advice on how to get into that field, perhaps by asking them how they got started, and what advice they might have for you to get an entry.

Anyway, hang in there, best of luck to you.

chrisw · October 25, 2012, 9:37am

One tid-bit of advice that I think a lot of people neglect… if you interview with a company, you can bet that the recruiters at least initially thought you met their minimum qualifications. Quite often, they will be willing to tell you why you didn’t get the job.

I did this three times, and twice the recruiters got back to me. Once they mentioned that they were afraid I would just leave the company and go to law school; the other said that they were looking for a candidate with different qualifications. While I couldn’t change the latter, the former was well within my ability to change - when the subject of law school came up, I had a ready-made response, completely explaining the reality of the situation.

Always learn from mistakes and missteps!

ElleB11 · October 25, 2012, 12:34pm

Cobra392 - I am on there but the only messages I’ve gotten were for retail jobs… which I am not interested in. I am thinking about getting a different degree… I’m starting to realize there is nothing there for me.

Squiddy - Thank you. I do getter better and better during each interview but it’s never good enough. I am not the best verbal communicator but I write pretty well.

Cobra392 · October 26, 2012, 7:07am

@Elle - You should be ACTIVELY reaching out to people on LinkedIn who work for companies that interest you. It’s not about “receiving” messages, it’s about being proactive and connecting with new people.

All, re: “not the best verbal communicator”, you need to do everything possible to get better at this. Be constantly doing “mock interviews” and finding every way to improve yourself.

nyc395 · October 26, 2012, 4:49pm

Upcoming 2013 graduate here. How long does the average graduate take to find a job? What are your guy’s acceptable limits?

harrisce4 · October 26, 2012, 5:33pm

Yes, Exactly what Squiddy said: “an employer wants a track record that indicates you’d be a good employee with a strong work ethic.”

I’m not going to lie, when I graduated with my B.Sc in Marketing last December I thought working retail was “beneath me.” But after applying to & interviewing for multiple advertising agencies and being turned down, I ended up applying to retail jobs anyway. I was moving to NYC and needed a job so I started to become less and less picky as the time got closer for me to move.

When I did get a job in advertising (about 3 months later), my boss said she hired me bc I was a “go-getter.” When you have a job, even picking up trash as Squiddy said in a previous post it shows that you are still making a living for yourself and working hard until you find your dream job. I HATE sales with a passion- the sales quotas, the having to be nice to customers (even if they are rude), etc. But, saying I worked for Marc Jacobs at Bloomys temporarily while waiting to land my advertising job really did help.

It’s okay to start off applying to your “dream jobs”. There’s certainly nothing wrong with that, but when push comes to shove and bills are due, you have to start being less picky and more realistic. Student loans only give you a 6-month grace period. After which, they will start to expect repayments.

Keep your head up in this economy. Be persistent. Continuously revamp/refresh your cover letter and resume. Also, something that made me stand out was I had a marketing portfolio. Maybe you could showcase your work outside of the standard, boring resume. Of course, in advertising it’s all about being creative. I’m sure not all majors are that way, but it couldn’t hurt! GOOD LUCK everyone!

Whatdidyou · November 25, 2012, 1:54pm

“The ones that are proactive, desperate, fearful, and hungry will always find something, one way or another.”

Yes, you might find something. But that something, such as fast food, may not provide a high enough wage to cover living costs & student loan payments. “Something” may not get you by. My school graded on a curve, so that the average grade was ~ C+ in every class. Lets just say, that as an A student in a “good” major, I had a hard enought time and feel bad for the average student.

“When you have a job, even picking up trash as Squiddy said in a previous post it shows that you are still making a living for yourself and working hard until you find your dream job.”

The problem is that HR is so picky nowadays, that having a job picking trash, retail, or food service (among others), actually hurts you more than it helps you. You may find a rare recruiter/HR person who looks at it the way you do, but most won’t.

“if you interview with a company, you can bet that the recruiters at least initially thought you met their minimum qualifications. Quite often, they will be willing to tell you why you didn’t get the job.”

Actually, they mostly won’t tell you. I think it may be because of legal reasons, but for whatever reason, is is usually against policy for them to divulge that info.

The economy sucks, graduating in this economy sucks, and graduating with low grades/bad resume sucks even more.

However, I fully agree with those who have advised you to keep busy, network, expand your horizons, and not to give up. It is very possible for you to have done everything “right” and still come up empty. Just don’t lose hope.

chrisw · November 26, 2012, 9:31am

How is a menial job a bad thing? Are you trying to say that a gap in one’s resume is better than a non-skilled job? If so, I’m not sure where you’re applying to jobs, but I don’t know of anybody who would rather see nothing than something.

Without arguing over reality, is there any reason for you not to ask why you were not chosen? Saying, “this probably won’t happen” in this sense adds absolutely no value for someone. Asking why you were not chosen for a job poses the applicant no risk because the worst that happens is that you don’t find out anything, and the best that happens is that you learn something to improve for next time.

Whatdidyou · November 26, 2012, 10:17pm

“How is a menial job a bad thing?”

It is bad because it shows you could not get anything else.

“Are you trying to say that a gap in one’s resume is better than a non-skilled job?”

No, I never said that.

“If so, I’m not sure where you’re applying to jobs, but I don’t know of anybody who would rather see nothing than something.”

Absolutely. Volunteer, take a couple community college classes, work on a project. All of that is looked upon much better than if you worked a job picking trash for 6 months.

“Without arguing over reality, is there any reason for you not to ask why you were not chosen? Saying, “this probably won’t happen” in this sense adds absolutely no value for someone. Asking why you were not chosen for a job poses the applicant no risk because the worst that happens is that you don’t find out anything, and the best that happens is that you learn something to improve for next time.”

@chrisw: The reality is that more often than not, they won’t tell you. I am neither advocating nor discouraging rejected applicants from asking, I am merely correcting a previous poster who said that you will often get a response. That was the entire point of my two little sentences that you took issue with.

Who graduated in 2012 and still doesn't have a job?

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