<p>The Department of Energy figure included state taxes.</p>
<p>The point that few of you (besides Xiggi) seem to be getting is that, contrary to what Barrons seems to think, the government doesn’t “make” money on gas taxes. Most of the revenues from that source are poured right back into the infrastructure which creates the demand for the product and makes those multi-billion dollar profits possible. To the extent that gas taxes are used for highway construction, maintenance, patrolling, pollution monitoring etc., those are just another set of “costs” associated with the gasoline business, which the government is good enough to handle on behalf of the oil companies. It’s not like that money is being spent to gold plate W’s faucets down in Crawford - it’s just more of the government performing what is in fact a major, if generally ignored, government function - helping business make money by building and maintaining infrastructure that assists business in doing its thing.</p>
<p>VEry true, Kluge. Gasoline taxes go for the kind of services that most people support. We all benefit directly.
Also, gas taxes are a very small part of state tax revenue.</p>
<p>We all know that. The fact is the irony that taxes on gas are far more than the profits. I doubt most of us knew that. And I have seen some gold-plated uses of gas tax $$$–some of the public transit stations in Seattle are incredible. The couple of miles of freeway across Mercer Island were completely covered with parks so as not to offend the MIders. The cost per mile was the highest on the I system.</p>
<p>Barrons - your “irony” is about as significant as the “revelation” that the cost of crude is higher than the profits on the sale of gasoline. Railroads have to repair their own tracks - how do you think Big Oil would respond if the government offered to drop all gas taxes - in exchange for which the oil companies would have to pay for the construction and maintenance of all roads henceforth? Gas taxes are a great deal for the oil companies - they get the benefit, and the government gets people like you complaining that taxes are too high, while defending the “poor” oil companies with their “meager” 10% profit margin.</p>
<p>Talk about irony.</p>
<p>How much profit would bwe enough for companies…i gotsa tell you, when many companies have higher expenses, they either suck it up or pass it along to its customers, but they don’t manage to pull out record PROFITS in the deal</p>
<p>if my H has higher expenses, he will pass it on, but he doesn’t suddenly make record profits in the process, he manages to maintain his level</p>
<p>I for one would love to see a true breakdown of plant closers due to "maintenance’ etc…cause, having lived through the last oli crisis, my trust level of for the oil companies is minimal</p>
<p>fool us once…</p>
<p>and after what was done to California in the “energy crisis” and
shortages" which we now know were created to raise profits, if we don’t ask questions and doubt, and if we blindly believe the propoganda send out by the oil companies and believe all their excuses, while at the same time as they have record profits, we are fools</p>
<p>K you are hopeless. It’s an interesting factoid that most don’t know–that’s all. Get off the horse. I won’t even get into the debate on whether roads are good or bad. We could as easily fund roads from income taxes (more fair RIGHT??) or tolls or many other methods.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Quite a double entendre, Kluge. :)</p>
<p>Which of A or B do you favor? </p>
<p>A. The point that few of you (in addition to Xiggi) seem to be getting
B. The point that few of you (except for Xiggi) seem to be getting</p>
<p>Barrons, while I see that you’re backpedalling as fast as you can, the fact remains that you were engaging in the process of reinforcing subtle beliefs - as I noted to Driver - about government, taxes, and business. Since Exxon has gotten a lot of press for its very large profits, at a time when a lot of people are upset about the price of gas at the pump, suddenly “interesting factoids” surface which tend to distract from the possibility of corporate overreaching and deflect attention onto - you guessed it - bad, bad government and taxes.
After all, why did you suddenly decide to highlight this particular financial dichotomy? Did it just “pop into your head”?</p>
<p>I’ve become very sensitive to subtle propaganda, and I like to pull it into the light of day. “Interesting factoids”, amusing stories attributed to “a friend”, one-sided descriptions of events exagerated for comic or dramatic effect, etc. have all been used effectively to implant and reinforce basic concepts about the workings of America regarding tobacco, the courts, environmental protection, and other areas which affect the potential profits of various businesses. I don’t like to let them go unchallenged, because in the aggregate they end up forming a base of unquestioned assumptions which frame the beliefs people end up having, without their even knowing about it.</p>
<p>Xiggi - B, of course. And by the way, the above is what I was getting at with “Xiggi as Neo” before Driver hijacked that thread. Why do you suppose the “interesting factoid” occurred to Barrons just now?</p>
<p>It popped into my head when I saw the little sign on the pump this weekend during my $50 fill-up. “This price includes XX cents of federal and state taxes.” A quick calculation and Eureka.</p>
<p>ASAP–you need to re-read your data. Washington has a tax of $.31 a gallon itself plus the Feds.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.eoionline.org/Taxes/GasTax0805.pdf[/url]”>http://www.eoionline.org/Taxes/GasTax0805.pdf</a></p>
<p>How much does the gas station guy make on a gallon? What I’d like to know is … what’s the margin per gallon, either in percent or in actual dollars and cents? </p>
<p>I know that margin dollars need to go pay for labor and rent and electricity and insurance and advertising and all that other stuff … and then there’s a little bit of gross profit left over.</p>
<p>Funny how these things just pop into people’s heads, isn’t it? Apparently it popped into these guys heads, too:
<a href=“http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2006/cyb20060428.asp[/url]”>http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2006/cyb20060428.asp</a>
<a href=“http://www.therant.us/staff/williams/05012006.htm[/url]”>http://www.therant.us/staff/williams/05012006.htm</a>
<a href=“http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2005/10/gas_taxes_excee.html[/url]”>http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2005/10/gas_taxes_excee.html</a>
<a href=“http://www.estatelegacyvaults.com/elv/002129.html[/url]”>http://www.estatelegacyvaults.com/elv/002129.html</a>
<a href=“Welcome theneweditor.com - BlueHost.com”>Welcome theneweditor.com - BlueHost.com;
<a href=“http://jaceonline.blogspot.com/2005/10/lesson-1-profits-are-better-than-taxes.html[/url]”>http://jaceonline.blogspot.com/2005/10/lesson-1-profits-are-better-than-taxes.html</a>
<a href=“http://www.rightwingnews.com/archives/week_2005_10_30.PHP#004673[/url]”>http://www.rightwingnews.com/archives/week_2005_10_30.PHP#004673</a>
<a href=“http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/1139.html[/url]”>http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/1139.html</a></p>
<p>And yet, it didn’t pop into any of their heads to think that the actual function of the government in collecting gas taxes was to collect money for the benefit of the big oil companies. Go figure.</p>
<p>cnp - the actual “gas station guy” - and there aren’t many independent stations anymore - has a very low margin, a few cents per gallon commonly.</p>
<p>
Oh Lord, Kluge, you still haven’t gotten over the “Xiggi as Neo” thread? You should just stick with p*ssing and moaning, which you do well, and leave funny to people who know what they’re doing.</p>
<p>If you want to make a factual case about “oil company profiteering” at the refining stage, you’re going to have to find a way to back profit out of the “refining and profit” category, which is very complex (due to the multiplicity of already-refined petroleum-based products, and the purchase of petroleum products to make up for shortfalls), especially in California. Good luck , but I don’t think you can make that case.
And yet again, the Grassy Knoll.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Actually there are at least two independents in my town … plus the other biggies. I keep hearing about the few cents per gallon thing … but as a small retailer myself “inquiring minds want to know” I find I am curious about the actual margins. </p>
<p>Is the station making a dollar a gallon (or $20 per fillup) – and then has to pay rent and salaries and other expenses out of that? Or is he making a dime a gallon and all the expenses are coming from the $2 per fillup?</p>
<p>Or when it’s all said and done and all expenses are paid, he’s making a net profit of two pennies per gallon … or $0.40 per fillup?</p>
<p>Retailers are known to make about 12 cents per gallon. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nacsonline.com/NR/rdonlyres/egtyte3kkiybcberfdct4ty3mxbotg7jgtyopxsxjnm4yqafdpj7mf5hexxtayke5okbkkwckgpwmzh65aurx45ined/Paul+Reid+Testimony+051106.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nacsonline.com/NR/rdonlyres/egtyte3kkiybcberfdct4ty3mxbotg7jgtyopxsxjnm4yqafdpj7mf5hexxtayke5okbkkwckgpwmzh65aurx45ined/Paul+Reid+Testimony+051106.pdf</a></p>
<p>This seems consistent with Costco’s gross profit on the sale of gasoline -also 12 cents. One negative for retailers is that their charges for credit card fees track the dollars amount while their margin seems stable. </p>
<p>For many retailers of gasoline, there is a need to offer adidtional products with higher margins (food, services, etc.)</p>
<p>At the end of the day, the analysis of the gasoline costs will probably show that taxes, profits margins and net profits are in line with expectations, leaving us with the hard to refute conclusion that the crude is simply more expensive. As to why the crude is more expensive, I’d like to again point to Daniel Yergin testimony of May 4th.</p>
<p>Driver, I’m not saying anything about “oil company profiteering” and if you can’t follow how the gas tax works for oil companies you’re just not paying attention. Please try to keep up.</p>
<p>Yes, the gas tax works for oil and auto, and transport, and tourism, and commerce, and mass transit and a billion other things. Yes the major highway expansion by Ike was based partially on national defense but the auto and oil and commerce folks were right behind it. </p>
<p>You keep avoiding the question of funding highways and transit with another more “fair” tax.
I don’t read any of those sites. My steady list is CC, newspapers from Madison and Virginia, and UW sports. That’s it. The comparison on profits/taxes is pretty obvious if you think about it for a second. The main reason I have any interest at all in Exxon is the recently retired CEO was a fellow Badger. I don’t buy their gas.</p>
<p>Barrons, the reason why highway and transit isn’t funded by a more “fair” tax (and you’re right, gas tax is regressive) is because we don’t base our tax policy on “fairness”, we base it on what sells, and what we can get away with. (Barrons, I’m starting to suspect you’re a closet socialist!) My point is that much of what government does is to collect taxes on behalf of business, and then spend those tax dollars to facilitate the profitable operation of our capitalist economy.</p>
<p>And here’s the kicker - I’m not saying that’s a bad thing. In fact, I’m in favor of it. The gas tax which benefits Exxon also benefits America. Businesses’ interest and the national interest frequently go hand in hand. What’s good for General Motors often is good for America.</p>
<p>All I’m trying to do is make people aware thta that’s what’s going on. Because the constant, boring repetition of the concept that taxes exists solely to redistribute income, to take money from the deserving rich and give it to the justly poor, is false. After military, social security, and interest on the national debt, a huge chunk of the money collected in taxes goes to helping business make a profit.</p>
<p>You forgot Medicare/caid as major chunks of the budget. The rest is pretty much chump change anyway.<br>
Glad to hear you generally support that which directly and indirectly helps make business successful. I’ll be the first to say that many businesses depend to an extent on the government in many ways.</p>
<p>The Texas/Iranian oilmen, futures and options traders, drillers and makers of drilling components are making a fortune.</p>
<p>Fortunately, they are all Republicans. Even the Iranians.</p>