Who's wacky? Me or the GC (Calif student's list)

Parents Forum
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I don’t think they do, actually – Berkeley certainly favors students with high standardized tests scores. Obviously there are far more public school students applying to the UC’s and enrolling, so even if the admission rate among private school students was higher than for public school students, it wouldn’t have much of an impact of overall statistical average for class profile. </p>

<p>However. if it were true that public school students had an advantage… I’d be all for it, given the fact that the UC’s are public, state-funded institutions. They should exist to server the students who are graduates of public schools in the state, the large majority of which could never afford a private education either at the K-12 level or for college.</p>

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<p>Those Arcadia High School scatterplots are wonderful, aren’t they! The great thing about them is that there are so many data points for many of the schools–Arcadia is a very large public high school in Southern California and has a student population who are very motivated to apply to a wide range of colleges. As you might have guessed from the fact that the scatterplots were found on the Chinese Parents’ website, there is a large population of Asian student at Arcadia.</p>

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<p>I don’t think that the UC’s purposely disadvantage private school kids. Indeed, they do the opposite, which, paradoxically may have the same effect. The UCs give big admissions tips to low income kids, kids who are first generation to go to college, kids who attend inner-city, low income schools, kids who face other, personal hardships, and the like. And, private, prep schools just don’t have a lot of these types of applicants. I would suggest that a 3.2 gpa kid, from a single parent household, and who was on a full need-based ride to a private prep school would fare extremely well in UC admissions.</p>

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<p>It’s not just UC schools, students in rigorous private hs’s compete against super talented peers in the elite college admit game. 50% of the senior class may be NMSs.</p>

<p>Just as some hooks can ADD up to 100 points to the SAT score and some corresponding percentage to the GPA, unhooked students coming from rigorous private high schools need to DEDUCT up to 100 SAT points and a corresponding GPA percentage in order to determine the threshold of admission. </p>

<p>In my experience, about two thirds of the private school families understand this Faustian bargain. The other third discover it during admissions. Had these students gone to less rigorous schools, they might have been more competitive in the college admit game. In the end, though, those rigorous high schools deliver a top LAC education. If the student is there for the education–not the ticket–nothing is lost.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the link to the Arcadia High School data. It’s interesting to me how similar the data is to the large public Northern California high school that I’m familiar with…our scattergrams look the same. I wish there was a special note for recruited atheletes, because that seems to consistantly skew our data.
I will say that my cousin got into UCLA’s performing arts program (also an actor) with a far worse record 3 years ago. I think the audition for this candidate (if she ends up specifying a performing arts major, which would probably benefit her) is a wild card, like being a recruited athlete.</p>

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<p>As calmom suggests, the UCs rely heavily on test scores, so I see that as actually favoring private school students slightly. The students at my kid’s private HS did extremely well in UC admissions, as they usually had scores that basically guaranteed them a spot. Their gpa’s may be slightly lower than they would have been at a public, but their scores are probably better due to the more rigorous education. (I’m generalizing here, as it’s certainly not true in all cases.)</p>

<p>I don’t agree, however, that kids that go to public HS are in any way more entitled to a UC education than those who went to private HS, as long as they were in-state. After all, we pay our taxes just like the public school parents to support these state colleges and universities. The students should be judged on their individual circumstances and accomplishments, not whether they went through public or private high schools.</p>

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<p>Regarding Performing Arts departments - Don’t many colleges, including at the UCs, put much more emphasis on the demonstrated performing art capability than the typical scores that they might weight more heavily for some other departments?</p>

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<p>The GC is way off, not you. I wanted to weigh in and agree that it would be good to think about adding Scripps and Occi to the list. Also, you need to get yourself to the performing arts college fair. You will be amazed at how much flexibility the arts reps from excellent colleges say there is for grades/SAT’s (as long as the student is in the colleges acceptable range, which obviously your D is) if the student is extremely strong artistically and auditions well. If your D wants to do drama in college, or if her voice is sufficiently impressive, she can audition into USC or UCLA’s performing arts programs. If the performing arts dept. that auditions her wants her, her grades and SAT’s lose significance. UCSB used to have voice auditions as well – not sure if they still do. Be sure that you get excellent CD’s of D’s voice and DVD’s of dramatic monologues to the relevant departments at all of the colleges to which she is applying, and to the admissions people as well. Being a very talented actress/singer is relevant in admissions – milk it!</p>

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<p>Beg to differ with a few of the other posters…

  1. The UCs place a higher weight on GPA than on SAT scores. SATs are important, but GPA is more so. Some UCs, like UCSD, are almost entirely numbers-driven. (I don’t have the link here, but there’s a UCSD site that shows their point system and gives the cutoff number for the previous year’s admission.) And, yes, with your daughter’s stats, she’s guaranteed admission to a UC - but it could be UC Merced.
  2. The performing arts programs at some of the schools mentioned (including SC and UCLA) are EXTRAORDINARILY competitive, admitting fewer than 10% of those who audition. (I’m sure you already know this, as you say your other child is a drama major.) For some programs, double majoring or even minoring in another subject is not an option, as the courseload and rehearsal load is so heavy. My theatre-major daughter sang with her a capella group at her college’s convocation last week, and she was afraid that her teachers would see her - she’s not even supposed to participate in activities outside the department.
  3. If your daughter wants to major in another subject but still continue to perform, her chances of doing so are better at smaller schools which don’t have highly-competitive theatre programs. At my daughter’s school, performance opportunities are pretty much limited to the theatre majors. A non-drama major friend of hers at Claremont McKenna, on the other hand, was playing leads in their productions in freshman year.
  4. My daughter’s situation was similar to your daughters - good, not stellar, grades, talent as a singer, actress, and violinist, a few more honors and AP classes, NM commended, and with higher SAT scores. She was a real presence at her HS, and her dad and I were very proud of her. When the GC told her that some of the schools on her list were reaches, we didn’t believe it - until the rejection letters started coming in. She ended up with two excellent choices, and has been very happy at her school, so all ended well - but with kids 2 and 3, I’ll make sure they have a few more safeties in the mix.
    4.I have heard good things from a few sources about the theatre program at Chapman, which is a little bit easier to get into than some of the other schools on your list. Also, at UCSB, the auditions for the BFA Theatre major aren’t held until the end of freshman year, so she’d have a year to decide if that’s truly what she wants to do. SB has become more competitive in the last few years, but it’s still worth a shot.
  5. No matter what the GC - or anybody on this forum - says, your daughter should apply to any or all of the colleges you listed.She’s obviously a smart and talented young lady, and admissions officers will recognize that. Unfortunately, there are more smart and talented kids applying to these schools this year than these schools can accommodate, so some rejections are probably inevitable, and you should probably add a couple of safeties. (If our kids had been born ten years earlier, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.) The important thing to remember is that she can get an excellent education and thrive at any of the schools that have been mentioned here, even at a CC.
    Good luck!</p>
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<p>Adding to the echo that suggests you consider Chapman University, my S is there as a freshman at the Dodge College of Film. Your D’s SAT’s and GPA are right on target there.</p>

<p>I understand they are reorganizing the Performing Arts major there this year!, so check out the most recent information. </p>

<p>The school is small (a university of 5,000 students, perhaps 1/3 of those graduate students), so students from TV, film, acting and so on befriend each other and work collaboratively on projects.</p>

<p>Every interaction I"ve had with anyone in administration there has been easy, kind, intelligent and helpful.</p>

<p>My S is doing extremely well academically and artistically. I realize he’s just a freshman, but really, he and we couldn’t be happier about this university. Even the kinds of critiques he gets on projects demonstrate close attention from professors, professionalism, and a way of making creative suggestions that is both challenging and productive to students. I’m a semi-retired teacher so I know how a comment can be written either to slice-and-dice, or to say: you did abc well, now it’s time to consider efg. This brings a student to the next higher level. </p>

<p>Since we’re from out-of-state, we didn’t seriously consider any of the other UC’s, so I can’t compare; can only speak well of Chapman for someone interested in theater arts or film. Actors find plenty of roles in student films, so if D wants to add this to her onstage experience, it should be readily possible. </p>

<p>Another son of ours majored in Theater in a small LAC in the East. He had plenty of stage acting time during college, and close attention from professors, because it was a small department. Now he’s in NYC, acting steadily off-Broadway, has a good time getting roles from auditions. So that speaks well to agree with the earlier poster who suggested a small university or college with a major in acting can be a good formula. He was onstage as often as he wanted to be during college, and now same thing in his third year in NYC.</p>

<p>My son at Chapman is also enjoying his history and math courses, so the education is a good liberal arts foundation, not just about the performing arts. </p>

<p>The town of Orange is charming, fun, safe. There’s a train into downtown LA, or a 50 minute drive (or MORE due to traffic on Highway 5), so going into downtown LA is not a daily activity from Chapman. They’re building some kind of backlot stageset right on the campus. On weekends, many students recreate at Disneyland or go to the beaches at LongBeach, Newport, Huntington. UCIrvine is around 20 minutes away.</p>

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<p>I wish our public school had something like this Arcadia chart. My copy is hard to read. Any way to get a better copy on the screen? Also, it looks like this is unweighted GPA. Isn’t weighted a better number to use for most of us, especially with UC admissions, we know that’s what we need. </p>

<p>My son is 4.1 UC GPA which is low for his chosen UC Berkeley and UCLA, but he has very strong SAT’s and took difficult classes. He is also at a strong public school where there are always a lot of admits to these UC’s, but I am getting the impression that the GPA is the whole story at the UC’s. We are all a little annoyed with the kids who take the easier classes to up the GPA and seem to be successful at college admission, but I don’t see how they are prepared for college.</p>

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<p>GPA is NOT the whole story with UCs, particularly with Cal and UCLA – essays are important, too, as are low income status, first gen to go to college, and the like. The individual campuses will also see the uncapped gpa, so kids taking easier classes will not fare well in admissions to the state flagships.</p>

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<p>Second bluebayou. Also, UC adcoms at Berkeley and UCLA do pay attention to the rigor of the applicant’s high school courses. Dumping honors and AP classes for easier ones in order to raise the GPA probably won’t do them any good.</p>

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<p>Agree that UCLA and Berkeley admissions are much more like a private school than the normal state school.</p>

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<p>I, too, think the GC was just being cautious. Two years ago, my S was in much the same position as your D (3.6 GPA, 1 honors class, slightly higher test scores) and he was accepted into most of the colleges you named. Like yours, our college advisor didn’t give him much hope. We think the reason his acceptance rate was so good was that he had his essay reviewed very carefully by a former university essay reader. Good luck to her - she’ll have lots of positive responses with such a great looking resume.</p>

<p>PS - My son decided on UCSB and is getting tired of all the drinking going on 24/7 around him. A better choice might have been Davis or LMU - his other top picks.</p>