"Many of the applicants who are applying to the very top colleges in the country are not over-reaching, actually. If they get into one or more of HYPSM+C+add your own very top favorites, then I would not say they were over-reaching at all. "
I doubt most posters here object to any student reaching, IF part of a balanced list. The problem is when the entire list skews toward being reach heavy and then they come here complaining. Every list needs realistic possibles and likelies and they need to show those schools the love as well if demonstrated interest is factored in.
essays can really make or break people, because you have to be able to show that knack for passion or intellectual curiosity in a subject for the really top colleges, because they want people who can test the limits in their education
I think it is tough for many 17/18 year olds to talk about themselves. One of my kids is a very strong academic writer but the personal narrative was very challenging for this kid.
And theyâre used to writing for hs teachers who know them, can fill in some blanks. Or in an overly academic style, thesis statements, proofs. I often say, write as if recounting to an adult youâre connected to.
True, theyâre young and havenât put anything like this together before. But there are few passes.
âECs in line with majorâ - how important is this when some crazy percentage of kids change their major? Or, at elite colleges, do they expect kids to have it figured out? Our S19 is strong academically across the board winning writing and art awards as well as taking all honors and AP classes in every subject and excelling in math taking BC Calc as a junior and Multivariable next year. Heâs an athlete too so he doesnât have time for academic ECs. And heâs only ruled out engineering as a major. That makes him less of a match for schools? Shoot, I hope not.
Like many kids, he has worked his butt off and has a high UW and weighted GPA as well as a high SAT and will probably be NMF. I hope being interested in multiple subjects and wanting to explore is not a negative on his apps.
The âmajorâ isnât always the important point â but the application as a whole needs to have consistency and convey a sense of the applicant as a person. The point is that the application as a whole tells a story â and it needs to be a fairly simple story â given the context. (The admissions readers donât have time to delve deep to explore complexity).
@homerdog â my advice would be for your son to pick two key strengths, and âthemeâ his application around those.
I saw many posts on CC: âAll you need to do is write a killer essay.â I think this is one of the reasons why the kids are overreaching. It makes the kids think all other factors are secondary and everyone has the same chance. And it generates a lot of free or paid assay writing services.
US News already uses average class sizes and s:f ratios. A peer assessment survey is one of the most heavily weighted factors (as suggested in #198).
How would you measure âeducational qualityâ directly?
Many of the ranking factors presumably are, in somebodyâs mind, indirect indicators of that.
If a college attracts applications from many more top students than they can accept, most of those students must think the educational quality is high. Otherwise, more of them would apply (or enroll) elsewhere; the admit rates and average scores would go down. Admission selectivity reacts like prices to supply and demand. Like price, by itself it can be an imperfect quality indicator, but it does tend to correlate positively with many other factors used to rank colleges. Furthermore, high concentrations of top students tends to increase educational quality (other things being equal). Students learn from each other; professors can teach at a faster pace to better students.
But if many strong students are being shut out of selective colleges, that suggests supply-demand is out of whack. Almost all the âtopâ colleges were built over 100 years ago. Since then, demand for college education has soared (not only from quadrupled population size, but also from more disposable income as well as greater access to women and minorities.) Apparently the country hasnât built enough new schools/places to keep up. This is part of the âinfrastructureâ problem, maybe. Blaming good students for âoverreachingâ is a little like blaming drivers for traffic jams. Sure, more of them could be taking the long way around â but sooner or later, we need to widen the roads (build more public transportation, etc.)
Yes, there are colleges that are shrinking, so one might argue that it is not a problem of supply and demand, but a problem of distribution â distribution of students, and distribution of prestigeâŠ
âIf they get into one or more of HYPSM+C+add your own very top favoritesâŠâ
This is not the first time that Iâve seen C added to HYPSM. I guess that itâs supposed to be obvious which university is meant, but somehow itâs not to me. Columbia? UChicago? Caltech?
About those ECs related to the major: for a top college, it can be an indication of their thinking, the opportuities they see and how willing they are to go for it, Many claim some ardent interest but did nothing. Eg, kids who go on about wanting to help people, but havenât done that. Kids who claim a drive to study politics and have impact, but never got involved locally or in any community advocacy type things. A lot of kids dart in and out of community service- literally, a drive somewhere, an hour âhelping,â then home. A hs club to talk, maybe write letters or hold a fundraiser party isnât the same. Nor just taking related AP classes. Stem wannabes who havenât been in math-sci ECs. Meanwhile, others have extended themselves. It doesnât take a high SES, fabulous hs, or indulgent parents to do these things. You donât need to win national awards or author a paper. You do need to show the vision and the get-up-and-go.
Some majors are harder to find experiences, yes. And kids change majors, sure. But it helps to get out of the hs box. âShow, not just tell.â
Not all colleges expect this, of course. But this is more than sititng down for a few weeks and writing what you think is a killer essay. I donât think most kids even understand what a meaningful essay is. All this talk about tugging heartstrings with some sad tale or, âIf the essay fell on the floor and it sounded like you wrote it.â Content matters, youâre being reviewed for college admission.
Ok, my soapbox. Itâs so much more than grades and scores. For a top holistic.
@lookingforard, with regard to the ECs, there probably comes a time where a kid needs to make a choice. For example, a stem kid loves theater and a couple of sports. She isnât going to be an actor or an athlete, but those activities give her pleasure.
There are kids who are simply not that targeted. They are more renaissance kids. Sure they love science and want to study bio, but they also enjoy fencing, choir and tech crew. I wouldnât give all that up, because life doesnât give you so many chances to enjoy those things as an adult. There are plenty of fine colleges who will welcome that kid.
The problem is that many, if not most families donât realize they are making a choice because they donât realize the change that has come over the applications process. When they get to this point, they are shocked and disappointed that their high stats excellent student is shut out from the schools they believed they deserved.
My kid thought heâd major in International Relations, but he didnât want to do Model UN which was dominated by drinkers with helicoptery parents. Instead he did Science Olympiad which was full of nerdy kids and parents were not at all involved except when the school system wouldnât give them a bus to go to States. He applied as undecided except for the one school where if he wanted to do IR he had to apply to that division.
My kid has lived and breathed dance, but she is unsure she wants that as a major. She wants to be able to continue dancing, so she focused on LACs that had some level of dance on campus. She did a good job connecting dance to her other interests (physics, philosophy, and literature) in interviews and essays. Dance became a framework on which she could display her other interests.
I donât think a kid has to be hyper-focused, but they do need to be aware of the overall picture/story they are creating in their application and how that fits in with the colleges they are applying to. There is simply more competition for top slots. There are also a lot of previously not well known schools that have great programs and opportunities that the traditionally top schools may not provide. It is worth casting a wide net at the beginning.
Hyper focused kids may (emphasis on may) have better chances at hyper focused schools. If you are applying to a colleges that requires students to apply to a specific major, their application should reflect that to have better chances. There are unis that do not requite majors in advance or have undecidedâŠ
âThis is not the first time that Iâve seen C added to HYPSM. I guess that itâs supposed to be obvious which university is meant, but somehow itâs not to me. Columbia? UChicago? Caltech?â
Itâs UChicago. The best form of the acronym is CHYMPS. Easy to remember and puts the best school in front where it belongs. :)>-
