I don’t remember who it was exactly but it was one single guy who was bitter that his nephew wasn’t admitted to some great schools. His contention was that nephew had good grades and was an athlete so was a shoo in for the top schools and made a mistake by writing about being an Eagle Scout. If I remember correctly, not many people agreed with him on the idea that focusing on being an Eagle Scout was the problem.
It was irritating that the guy was so disrespectful of kids who had chosen to be scouts - he stated some very rude, inaccurate and insulting things about the characteristics of people who choosing scouting - but it wasn’t a huge deal. One guy being a jerk because 1) his nephew wasn’t admitted to top colleges and 2) his nephew had ignored his admissions advice. Not worth being sad or worrying about. My family isn’t involved in scouting, but I suspect the scouts are better off without people like that guy anyway… moving on.
“His contention was that nephew had good grades and was an athlete so was a shoo in for the top schools …”
But, as we all know, those top schools accept only a teeny tiny percentage of all those kids with good grades who are athletes who play the harp and have donated a kidney to an orphan.
This isn’t about whether or not scouting is out, it’s about percentages.
"But, as we all know, those top schools accept only a teeny tiny percentage of all those kids with good grades who are athletes who play the harp and have donated a kidney to an orphan.
This isn’t about whether or not scouting is out, it’s about percentages."
Many of us pointed that out. Pointing out the flaw in his assumption was about as effective as posting the heresy that not every single top student only wants to go to Harvard, Yale or Princeton (and a few west coast top weirdos to Stanford.) But again, so what? Let him think what he wants to think. Doesn’t hurt your kid unless you buy into the craziness.
I seem to have thrown a wrench into the conversation with my comment about scouting. It was really just meant as an example of the perception that prosaic ECs don’t get an unhooked kid into an elite school. I would much rather this be false. It would be great if ORM, non-legacy, non-athletes could still have a shot at Harvard and Stanford by participating in math club, year book and scouts. From reading the results threads here on CC and from many conversations here and elsewhere, that doesn’t seem to be the case. But my kids are not applying to Harvard so I have no first hand experience.
I have served on committees with people who dislike scouting. You may not have encountered it, and the admissions committees at the top schools may not act this way, but the behavior is out there–along with people who are very impressed by Eagle Scouts or Gold Award Girl Scouts.
I think that what many here are forgetting is that the Boy Scout organization has changed rapidly. Gay kids and even girls can now participate. That wasn’t the case just a couple of years ago. Scouting was frequently portrayed in the press as out of touch, anachronistic, bigoted. My son is an Eagle Scout. When he submitted his college applications (a few years ago) I too worried about the reaction from readers. I’m glad things have changed.
Edit: except still for some AOs, according to QM’s post.
I think using high school ECs to predict interests of students in college majors or contributions to college ECs is not right. Some students will continue HS interests in college but many students will change interests in college. There are at most a dozen subjects taught in HS but there are at least 100 or 200 majors offered in college. Furthermore HS student intellectual development does not stop in 12th grade and opportunities for students to develop interests in HS is very limited.
My only knock on scouting (now that they are more inclusive - before I used to have more ) as an EC for college, is that I don’t think it is as challenging as it used to be to earn Eagle Scout. I’m sure it varies from area to area but in my area, Eagle Scout isn’t that rare of a commodity these days and some of the Eagle Scout projects aren’t what I’d deem to be very robust.
To clarify: I haven’t been on undergrad admissions committees–just committees for undergraduate scholarships, awards, and graduate admissions. The inclusion of girls in “boy” scouting now, and the participation of gay scouts is new, and that will have changed some opinions. I don’t think they permit gay Scout masters yet, though–but perhaps that has changed, too. If not, some liberals would still oppose the activity for limited inclusiveness. I think some are uncomfortable with the hint of para-militarism of the organization (and of its history). I’m happy to see Eagle Scouts among applicants, though not overwhelmed by their qualifications (as some are).
On a different topic, but as another example of different readers, different impressions: The grad admissions committee I was serving on last year disagreed about whether a letter was laudatory or cautionary (I was positive it was “laudatory.”)
Perhaps admissions readers may want to reflect that the choice of scouting organizations to participate in (Boy (becoming coed) Scouts, Girl Scouts, Navigators, Trail Life, etc.) may be more reflective of the applicant’s parents’ views and choices based on such views on the various topics of controversy.
The ban on gay scoutmasters in the Boy Scouts was ended in 2015.
I am about as politically liberal a person as you could find and I honestly have never heard anyone- even in my “knee jerk liberal circles” criticize a kid who was a scout. Taking a yoga class doesn’t mean you buy in to the spiritual beliefs of the leaders of that faith; joining scouts doesn’t make you a participant in a para military operation.
@Longhaul I agree with you, FA plays a key role in the admission process. My son got rejected in all the ivies he applied to and i highly suspect it was because we were asking for a substantial amount of aid. In fact he had all that it took to be admitted but he was rejected outright. In this era where colleges receive thousands of applications far more than they can admit, ability to pay comes high, especially amongst the international applicants. The colleges prefer the students from south east Asia whose parents are affluent and are ready to pay the $$$ to the children of the low income parents from Africa and other parts of the world.
I don’t explain 'em, I just observe 'em. Maybe my liberal acquaintances are more extreme in their views than your liberals. I tend to think well of Eagle Scouts (at least to a certain extent). Some of the other people I have served with show signs of down-rating an applicant who is an Eagle Scout, for no other reason. Sincere apologies to Eagle Scouts and their parents out there. But the person who raised the dislike of Scouts earlier on this thread was not making it up.
Since they allow gay Scout Masters now (and girls), I think the concerns about inclusiveness will be greatly reduced. I know that there had also been some concerns about atheist scouts in the past, since “reverence” is supposed to be one of the characteristics of a scout. But as far as I know, atheists can join now.
“Para-military” is probably the wrong term, but a group that is organized into troops and patrols, with patrol leaders, badges, sashes, uniforms (especially the colors and styles), the Order of the Arrow, the Order of the Arrow with Vigil Honors . . . it’s not exactly the Beatrix Potter Fan Club nor the “Hello, Kitty” Society. Maybe some of that has been dropped. I don’t think the Order of the Arrow with Vigil Honors has been eliminated though.
I guess they can technically but here is the Boy Scout oath:
On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.
@Mmrosa - need blind schools will not reject you due to your inability to pay (am assuming you are not an international). They simply have waaay too many very qualified applicants.
My husband was an Eagle Scout who spelled god with two o’s. He doesn’t believe in a deity. Our kids didn’t go into scouting - the gay stance when they were little was part of it. I know too many great kids though to ever think badly of scouting. I loved being a Girl Scout - it was a critical part of my growing up years. I think it would be a rare AO who would hold it against a kid. Girl Scouts had patrols and uniforms, and you couldn’t get farther from military than they were.
) as an EC for college, is that I don’t think it is as challenging as it used to be to earn Eagle Scout. I’m sure it varies from area to area but in my area, Eagle Scout isn’t that rare of a commodity these days and some of the Eagle Scout projects aren’t what I’d deem to be very robust.