Some of us have kids who are much smarter than we are. I’ve tried really hard to get up to speed with the whole college process but large parts of it remain a mystery to me. Most parents do the best they can and, for some, it’s still not enough to give their kids the best shot at success.
I should mention, many of these kids have this “entitled” attitude … I get more excited when I see the ones who are so thrilled to be admitted to a school.
I was so excited to be admitted to Ohio State University with a major scholarship. But sure not Harvard (LOL!) or as competitive to get in as Michigan, but nevertheless, it is a very reputable school with a very selective process and I am incredible blessed to have the opportunity for a close to a free education at a very good school I never assumed anything and nor should anyone else. Just do your homework.
"Gosh, I don’t want to judge but how could anyone let their kids work so hard and then fail to get informed about the current landscape of college admissions? "
Not to mention the cost which will be, one’s house aside, probably the biggest expenditure most families will have. I think some people spend more effort researching a new car purchase.
@doschicos LOL. If you only knew how many hours it took my husband to find the right used car! Months. He held out for the right amount of miles, the right color, the right make/model, and of course the right price.
Our school doesn’t use Naviance and our GC’s tell kids not to hyperfocus on scattergrams. You can get a ballpark but there are just way too many moving parts (and buckets) in the college admissions process. My son was right in the heart of the scatterrams of all 6 schools he applied to - and was accepted at 3.
Also, temper your expectations with those claiming “holistic” admissions. That term is tired and is often used as an escape hatch for AO’s.
That editorial is ridiculous. She argues that there’s a racial bias against Asians and holistic admissions isn’t really holistic. Then proceeds to argue that Asians have high stats but aren’t hooked and don’t otherwise stand out. That sounds like holistic admissions to me. Isn’t that what holistic admissions is? Standing out in one way or the other so that a college will want to offer a place in the class they are constructing? Yawn.
@lastone03 ooh that Atlantic article hits it on the head. Admissions aren’t really holistic in a real way. How could they be? They don’t know these kids. I love the last paragraph. It’s not the kids being rejected. It’s their applications. Now that’s a kick in the pants to make sure the app is good.
@itsgettingreal17 I don’t like Sarah Harberson. I think lots of people on CC know more than she does. Any time I see any of her articles, I either disagree or think “no duh”.
@itsgettingreal17 this is what holistic admissions really seems to be…
"From colleges’ perspective, “holistic” is just shorthand for, we make the decisions we make, and would rather not be asked to spell out each one. It’s a way for schools to discreetly take various sensitive factors—“overrepresented” minorities, or students whose families might donate a gym—into account. "
Guess what- didn’t you choose your spouse with a “holistic” decision? Code-word for is he/she attractive, likely to be loyal, good parent, tidy, successful professionally or politically active or whatever criteria is meaningful to you?
You want non-holistic? Go sign up to be a grunt at your local army recruiting center. If your BMI is within a certain range, you can pass a physical, and you can check the boxes on a quick list of criteria, you’re in.
Any other job in America? It’s holistic. Meaning there are subjective factors considered. What is important to work a cash register at Home Depot is different from what’s important in being a Walmart greeter which is different from being a teller at a Wells Fargo branch which is different from what they look for at Olive Garden- even though all these jobs may be entry level, pay the same, and be otherwise indistinguishable.
This is life. Holistic decision-making.
Good examples. It seems that some parents really want holistic to mean a point system, and it just isn’t. They want X points for GPA, Y points for SAT/ACT, then smaller point values for ECs, leadership, etc., with a certain number of total points guaranteeing acceptance. It just doesn’t work that way, and even such a formula would necessarily include some subjectivity.
@blossom you’ve missed the point. That’s not what a lot of these schools are doing. No one says don’t be subjective, you obviously have to be in life, but don’t tell a kid that a rough freshman year won’t be a factor as long as his GPA has good trajectory/rigor in subsequent years. It’s obvious that a 3.0 freshman year is going to box a lot of kids out, even with compelling reasons for not achieving higher stats in 9th grade. I’ve listened to enough AO speak to see that there is a lot of used cars salesman talk out there. That’s all I am saying.
@itsgettingreal17 Yesterday, I spent quite a bit of time talking with a mom of a Jr. The dad is a dr who attended UNC. I explained CDS info and 25th-75th scores/GPAs. Even though they have hired a private admissions counselor, she had never heard of the CDS, had no idea that you could look at info like that to get an idea about admissions, etc. She was floored by the idea that her student was not really competitive for UNC admissions and lamented that how was it that a good student wouldn’t be able to attend there, etc.
I think the avg parent out there has no idea what admissions is like today. I had to tell her that it was nothing like when we went to college, etc. Costs, otoh, she was aware of bc they had googled that. But, equally, she had no idea how competitive merit scholarships were b/c the entire conversation started around applying for scholarships b/c she knew my kids had been awarded large merit. There was definitely an impression before our conversation that merit would be accessible to cover most expenses. (Don’t know if that says more about her lack of awareness on merit or her assumptions about what she thought about my kids!! Actually, don’t go there, there is definitely a background story to this conversation, so I already know the answer. 8-| )
My experience with AO presentations have been very different with all stressing just how hard it is for acceptances. However, I’m sure that some misspeak or downplay requirements. That’s where parents should come in.
@Rivet2000 there are lots of solicitations going out to kids that have no chance of getting accepted. Yes, they will tell you that it’s competitive and then tell you that it’s okay because they look at applications “holistically”. I have no problem with the subjectivity; I have a problem with the lack of transparency. I’ve done this 3 times over the last 8 years and this last round has been the worst with respect to “the process”. Yes, parents need to step up but so many have no clue that they are clueless.
I agree with lastone03. I have listened to a lot of AOs in the last 6 years (having 2 kids), and they repeat the same cliches every year… I talked to an AO from a midwestern LAC last year and was shocked at how little experience she had (did her masters straight after UG and was two years into the process). “Holistic” in her view might simply mean the nice mom-son pair who talked to her at length in this school which rarely sends apps to her LAC. Frankly, its a quality of the AOs that sometimes makes me suspect the whole process.
I have relatives outside the US and I can tell you that the holistic process is exploited to the hilt back in my country of origin. We have professional “essay writers”, “resume builders” etc. etc. I do alumni interviews and can easily spot exaggerations and outright lies, but how often do they get caught? I think the volume of international applications has further added to the “unreachability” of certain schools (definitely in CA). When I applied 30 years back, most of us came just for graduate education. These days, kids (esp those whose parents can afford it) are put into “International schools” right from the start so that they can apply abroad for college. FYI, – and I am not joking-- but a US colleges in general are considered “safeties” since merit-based STEM programs are so competetive in my country of origin.
When people do not get the outcome they desire it’s easy to blame the process. People do not like uncertainty, but aside from better wordsmithing in marketing material and talking points for speakers I’m not sure what admissions people can do. I’ve not really read any proposals that would result in fewer CC posts about poor process.
Asian systems are mostly merit-based and have standardized curriculum and exams. Very transparent, and I would say fair, as everyone takes the same tests and (mostly) get a fair shot. The lists are posted and everyone can see and understand why they didnt get into the most competitive colleges. This is usually the case when undergraduate education is subsidized by the govt and colleges dont have to rely on marketing to attract students.
Oh, it’s not easy enough? You want a highly competitive college to admit you but you don’t want to have to work It? You want them to go on what your 9-12 liked, academically and other? That’s enough?
Well, you arent applying to another high school. This is the leap to college. Not only are the stakes different, so is the ante- the level of thinking it takes.
@kesari The US system is also merits based. While it may not be strictly stat based, it is merits base. I wouldn’t trade our system for any other. For those who want a strictly stats based admissions process, they can apply to schools here that are mostly stats based or go broad to a school in one of the systems they prefer.