@lastone03 What are your proposals and what would they improve?
The primary reason why a larger portion of students are ORMs at Berkeley than at most comparably selective private colleges is Berkeley is legally bound to not directly consider race in admission decisions, not that they focus more on stats. And some people do complain about this. Did you not see the thread a few below this one at http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/2070343-californian-parents-justified-feeling-bitter-their-kids-are-shutout-of-the-uc-system-p1.html â itâs going on ~800 posts in 2 weeks.
Berkeley does have holistic admissions, but their decision process and the emphasized criteria is notably different from HYP. A similar statement could be made about Caltech or Vanderbilt or many others. There is not one single âholisticâ admissions formula.
If we say we understand decisions are not made solely by test scores and GPAs (and it seems most do not want it to be as such anyway), we acknowledge there is an element of subjectivity in the process and we acknowledge there will always be outliers but they are called outliers for a reason, Iâm not sure I understand how the process can be improved.
@Rivet2000 Again, make it more transparent. Show the âpieces of the puzzleâ that make up classes other than those provided in a scattergram or in generic IS/OOS buckets. Expand the CDS. Show those top feeder schools. I have seen a few schools with a little more detail in the CDS but most get away with providing the minimum. That would be a start.
Some of you discussing Berkeley admissions might be interested in this video: https://youtu.be/M-4pi-zlk8g It is a Berkeley admissions colloquium on the change to holistic admissions.
@lastone03 Iâm not sure how that would help. If you knew which high schools sent the most kids to Yale, would you move to that school district? If you knew that Harvard saves one or two spots for dancers, would that prompt you to get your daughter ballet lessons? None of this is going to change that fact that THOUSANDS of kids are going to be rejected. Why not just focus on what you can control â being the best candidate possible and applying to a reasonable range of schools?
With all respect, I donât see anything in your reply that would alter anyoneâs decision to apply or not? I guess a feeded school is one that routinely has many students accepted at a given college. Wouldnât it be better to know the GPA, SAT scores, and recommendations that those students garnered? Or is there a problem with the âfeederâ school that seems so successful? In our area one school placed the vast majority of students accepted at a certain highly selective college. It came as no surprise to anyone, as everyone knew that that charter school had the most rigorous academics by far, their students were all extremely motivate, and their parents were as well.
âI do alumni interviews and can easily spot exaggerations and outright lies, but how often do they get caught?â
I would imagine adcoms are better at it than most people. Looking at thousands of applications, I would imagine you get quite good at sniffing out the phonies and exaggerators. Plus, many adcoms do become familiar with individual high schools within their geographical area so know what the norm is and isnât.
âThe primary reason why a larger portion of students are ORMs at Berkeley than at most comparably selective private colleges is Berkeley is legally bound to not directly consider race in admission decisions, not that they focus more on stats.â
Plus, absent Hawaii, California has the highest percentage of Asian Americans so it would make sense that in-state public universities would have a higher asian student population than other schools on average.
@Rivet2000 you asked for changes. Itâs about having the information to make a choice. Come on.
I think itâs its all out there: CC, thousands of college web sites, CDS data. I just donât see what else is needed. There may be something, I just donât know what is. My hope is that we move away from just calling for âtransparencyâ and towards actionable specifics that can be debated.
@lastone03 I think the question is, what would you do with the information if you had it? How would it change your behavior or your prospects in any way?
@Rivet2000 itâs not all out there.
Its not so much the essay being âdifferentâ as the essay revealing the right traits or attributes, wrapped in a nice tale. And a lot of kids canât or donât do that, no matter their stats and hs wins. Imo, the essay and ECs reveal a lot about oneâs thinking and choices, attitude, their understanding. Itâs not a little essay for your English teacher, who knows you, can fill in blanks. You want them nodding their heads, saying Yes, this kid would be a great add. Thatâs not quirky or odd, as much as conforming to their expectations. A lot of top performers donât get this. Adcoms would like to feel you can hit the ground running, fit in, thrive, influence and be influenced, that youâre their type.
No, itâs not easy peasy. And for a tippy top, why should it be? Nor is much of what you aim for in life. No check list. Itâs on you, the applicant. One thing adcoms donât do is read between the lines, assume, or guess. You either show it or not.
I canât express enough how the sort of kid the top holistics like doesnât sit around griping about the system, doesnât say, itâs too hard, too opaque.
âitâs not all out thereâ
There is actually a heck of a lot out there. I think it is naive to think you will be privy to everything. Thatâs not true with any other application process or purchase I can think of.
Enough is out there that, if folks truly were doing their due diligence, they would not be making claims itâs not transparent enough.
@lookingforward has it about right, if your not hooked (and perfect stats are no hook), then youâre left with ECs and essays, very few have truly outstanding ECs so that leaves the essays. An AO maybe a recent graduate and who may love an essay that someone wrote, and therefore they get the nod.
Here is a link to an article with very good points on the three types of applicants who get admitted. The last type is the âessay writerâ.
http://thecollegematchmaker.com/three-types-students-get-ivy-league/
@gallentjill the vast majority of kids have limited dollars to spend on apps so they want to have as much information as possible to determine the odds of getting accepted. Many have weak GCâs and parents that donât have the time to spend researching endlessly. They donât have access to Naviance. Most apply to publics so it would be nice for them to see how many kids from the county were accepted, what schools they attended, and what their profiles looked liked. You canât just go by a middle 50th. Many donât break out 60% acceptance for LAâs vs 30% for STEM. Iâm just advocating for the kids that donât have the same opportunties as many on here have. When the Admissions Counselor comes to school and tells you that this is what they look for, I just want it to be very honest. Some are, some arenât and thatâs why there are a fair amount of people who get blindsided.
âPlus, many adcoms do become familiar with individual high schools within their geographical area so know what the norm is and isnât.â
Actually no. I was specifically asked to do so because of my alumni schoolâs unfamiliarity with the region and her school.
There is so much arrogance here.
The arrogance is in those who want a formula to follow and complain because there isnât.