Two comments early on caught my eye. The first is the kids doing all of the same things. I’m an alumni interviewer and I interviewed four kids one weekend…literally the only difference was one did debate. Otherwise totally the same. Nice goods but preprogrammed by mom and dad with zero passion about anything. Second is about the bubble. I was sitting in a local Starbucks and I heard two moms in a group going on and on about how “world class” our high school swim team is…one of their kids was all league! The reality is I’m a 50 something masters swimmer and I would be on varsity with my current times…and I’m exceedingly average. There is not a kid on that team who could even swim D3. Not even close. I was with another masters swimmer (a mom) and we were in stitches.
I think the question really is: how are you going to add to our college community? Coming and grinding out studying 24x7 is not going to add a thing. People need to learn to compete in different ways. But this idea of “I have top grades and everyone should want me” is just silly.
They know that specific applicant characteristics correlate to financial need or lack thereof over a large group of applicants, even if some individual applicants vary from the trend. For example, in ECs, working to earn money to support one’s family versus playing sports in expensive travel leagues. So upgrading or downgrading which ECs count more can affect the FA need profile of the class as a whole.
Also, more requirements mean fewer disadvantaged students because they are less likely to be in high schools with well clued in counselors. CSS non-custodial profile is also a way to shift the class to lower FA need.
In other words, there are many ways to adjust the FA need of the class without being need aware for individual applicants.
@ucbalumnus OK, I agree that there are ways to estimate need without looking at individual financial aid applications, but why would a typical school with a certain financial aid budget estimate the value of the outgoing FA offers when they have the actual data available?
@ucbalumnus So I was going to ask why they are blindly accepting students they know can’t afford to go, but then I realized this was yet another example of why college admissions is so messed up.
Because generally their estimates are good enough, and the full data is always subject to change in any event. It’s not particularly efficient to manage a large budget on a case-by-case basis in any case.
I do think that during an admissions cycle it is very possible for the ad coms to get regular projection reports from the financial aid office and tweak admission criteria accordingly. That can also be more efficient than trying to micro-manage things- especially in the RD round when it is difficult to predict which accepted students will come.
My daughter was Pell grant eligible for about half the time she was in college, and was accepted to very reachy schools. I have always suspected (but not known) that she might have benefited from a profile that did not look “needy” (participation in more costly EC’s, daughter of two professionals with advanced degrees). That was a reflection of parental career choice and spending priorities, not wealth obviously – but it may very well have resulted in a little bit of a boost precisely because “need-blind” meant that the ad coms weren’t aware of specific dollar figures.
You guys are speculating.
One can read an app without regard to family finances or looking for clues.
And they are not “estimating” for “outgoing financial aid offers.” Need Blind is for admissions. Then the kid gets his or her aid package based on real details.
If they meet full need, in many cases they are going to also make college affordable --though it is also true that use of the CSS profile tends to create additional financial barriers for middle class families. But the full-need colleges are making an effort, and the colleges that don’t promise full need typically are leveraging aid in order to give more generous offers to the students they most want to attract – so in those cases the admissions department generally communicates some sort of desireablity ranking to the financial aid or enrollment management department.
“why would a typical school with a certain financial aid budget estimate the value of the outgoing FA offers when they have the actual data available?”
They dont have ALL the data, nor do they know how much mom and dad are actually WILLING to spend to send Jr to college. And the college’s estimate of a family’s “need” can be very different than what the parents think is really needed to say “Yes”, especially for many middle class families.
For colleges to know what the parents want would requires the ability to read minds.
Colleges have both enrollment yield estimates as well as FA budgets and the head of admissions pays close attention to both as students are evaluated. Sometimes they guess wrong and over accept, sometimes they under accept and go to the wait list as enrollments come in. Most wait list students are not offered the same FA offers as regular accepts.
Another way for a college to remain need-blind (for individual applicants) while tipping its overall incoming class to lower FA need is to use ED for a larger percentage of the class.
Unfortunately that is what most people don’t understand, you’re competing against your peers as defined by SRIG (sex, race, immigrant status, and first gen), just as internationals compete with just internationals. If you understand that you’ll get a better sense of your chances.
One of the downfalls of only looking at our own high schools, other kids you know, or hearing anecdotes about others hs is that it’s only a slice. Hand in hand with over-estimating your own assets is under-estimating what other kids can do. And the value in humility, a life asset.
While “identity” characteristics are widely believed to be the biggest factor in college admission around here, the actual reality at many colleges is that they are not considered, but that there are other types of admission buckets within a given college that can make a substantial difference in admission competitiveness. For example, consider http://www.sjsu.edu/admissions/impaction/impactionresultsfreshmen/ (strictly by stats, with state residency and local area residency as the only “identity” characteristics considered).
@CU123 Agreed—elite private college admission is all about figuring out your cohort and trying to stand out in your assigned cohort, which the kid has no control over. To pretend otherwise is really doing your kids, especially unhooked ones, a big disservice.
Go back to “Why applicants overreach and are disappointed in April…” My take
Because too many of them had been successful in getting into the best elementary schools of their district (or private or boarding schools), getting into best middle schools (G&T, technology, specialized…), and the last the prestigious high schools in their area (as big as a state)… all by the rule of tests (most of these primary education institutes use pure test scores to admit students). And then the rule suddenly changes at the biggest stage.
@hannuhylu You made it sounds the hooked kids (or any URM) do have to compete with other hooked kids either, and they just apply and automatically shoot in. I guess for some of them dodging bullets on the way to school or no parents can help them on their homework but still get to the level of 3.5 GPA and 1250 level of STA don’t mean a thing to you. Apparent that do mean a lot to administration officers and high ranked universities.
Overreach is not limited to elite privates (which are typically recognized as “reach for everyone”). Some publics, like the “middle” UCs, seem to be common overreach targets (many applicants assume that they are match or safety, even though many of them have stats that make those schools high match or reach for them).