<p>Please don’t talk down to me, “adultparentmom.” I understood my own thoughts perfectly, in context. The CONTEXT (speaking of critically reading my own posts) was that there is a vast ignorance, including by some on this thread about the physicality of the PERFORMING (get it? <em>performing</em>) arts. By the very term it implies physical activity. By anyone who has intimate knowledge, the physical is confirmed.</p>
<p>Critical self-education is even more important these days.</p>
<p>The mention of my own involvement in a commercial was an aside to emphasize how inclusive the physical demands are; that’s all.</p>
<p>I’m going to quote from a letter from an Ivy League school, because I think it articulates very well why athletics is valued by some institutions (not all). </p>
<p>“We think we have built a good athletic ethic at XXXXX, one based on the belief that athletics can be an important factor in the development of a whole person. As an athlete who has already achieved at a high level, you understand what we mean when we say that. We do not admit only “athletes” to XXXXX any more than we admit “musicians” or “chemists” or “those who have an unusual record of participation in community service.” We admit people of promise. You have shown the capacity to balance your academic life with a serious commitment to sports. We value that in itself and because we know what discipline and commitment it requires.”</p>
<p>For student/athletes and their parents, this statement is music to our ears. Somebody gets it. One could switch around the order of “chemist” and “athlete” and have the same warm feeling, if you’re the mom of a passionate chemistry student. And I suspect a similar letter IS sent to a few passionate chemists and musicians.</p>
<p>It’s not about the physicality, it’s about the commitment and ultimately, results.</p>
<p>For all of the young people who enjoy sports, I wish you good luck! The participation in sports has certainly helped my children in attaining their goals, and has led to very healthy minds and bodies.</p>
<p>“It’s not about the physicality, it’s about the commitment and ultimately, results.”</p>
<p>I completely agree. I only brought up physicality because it’s a constant supposedly contrasting refrain from students, & parents of students, involved in sports, who somehow believe that the performing arts are not as physical, when clearly they are. They are highly athletic activities done within an artistic format. One could argue that a graceful & coordinated Varsity athlete can be compared to a great dancer, & often has those qualities of physical poise & control as well.</p>
<p>Merely trying to clarify what the arts are, because this is not the first time I’ve seen this, either on CC or outside CC.</p>
<p>From my own experience again, college admission aside:</p>
<p>When I was MS/HS age I was involved in sailing and piano. Neither did last.
Guess which one I regret stopping the most? Which one could I have “used” daily? I honestly believe that both arts and athletics are important, but the push for competitive athletics in this part of the world is just a bit to much, IMO.</p>
<p>Randy Paush, when asked which one thing he regrets not pursuing/acomplishing in his life almost immediately responded - not “forcing” myself to learn how to play an instrument. It is somewhere on Youtube.
Again, just his private opinion.</p>
<p>Re Post 85:
I don’t think they rely “somewhat.” I think they are central. Once you get past a certain level, maintaining & surpassing that level often depends on separate attention to specific athletic training, such as workouts, running, etc. The Olympic-level ice-skaters, for example, did not get there without that, & could not remain competitive without it.</p>
<p>In dance, the expectation of the routines & steps becomes more demanding with each level achieved, & longer, & thus that in itself requires more physical strength (higher kicks, more sustained energy, etc.).</p>
<p>taxguy - I may be the exception, but I was a law review editor of a Top 10 law school as well as second in my class - and I spent all of my undergrad years at the highest level of Division 1 jockdom. So generalizations are dangerous. What I found at the top echelon of my law school and others like it were very few people who deviated from the progressive, liberal worldview. The groupthink that prevailed bothered me. But that is another subject. </p>
<p>But in a sense I agree with your point re athletes and academic excellence - and not because top athletes as a group are dumber or smarter than any other group. But what top athletes - and particularly the ones on athletic scholarship - are permitted to often do is not be as accountable as other students and get small and various (and sometimes not so small) breaks as they make their way through the educational system. Well, hat doesn’t count for much in professional school - the province of many an academic werewolf where competition runs high - and it doesn’t count for much in highly competitive PhD programs either. In other words, the spoilation typically begins young, and it doesn’t help the athletes in the long run.</p>
<p>mam1959,
That may have been true at one point in (an earlier) time. However, my understanding is that today the admissions scene is different. People involved in decision-making in admissions have weighed in on this (last year & the year before), on CC threads. Recruited & non-recruited athletes tend to have impressive GPA’s, at least at the very-select colleges. I’m just talking about undergrad years now, not professional school, as I am not familiar with those histories.</p>
<p>^ Bay - at 49 I weigh the same as before my first child - 124 pounds. Still love to hike with my H, climb stairs, clean the house, and play a really sorry game of tennis. My bp and cholesterol are at levels that my doc says others my age would kill for. My kids are also quite healthy. Taller than me and quite slim. Both have competed at swimming, tennis and volley ball and they still pursue these sports socially. They are now enjoying raquet ball. Healthy girls, size four-ish. I think they are absolutely fine without being jocks. </p>
<p>When I say huffing and puffing, I mean it. So many of the kids I see pursuing sports really hard look anything but healthy to me. Over muscled, beefy (except of course the runners), injured and as if they eat quite a lot of fast food on their way to the next meet. Nope. Not what I want for my kids.</p>
<p>I’m happy for all of you. But please know that some of us really are not impressed by all the effort, time, blah, blah, blah. One of the things my kids appreciated about moving to private school was getting away from the stupid sports pep rallies. And at our hs there were early acceptances at Yale, U Chicago, MIT, Caltech, Dartmouth and U Penn - not a single athlete in the bunch. Just nerdy smart kids who do other stuff. Imagine that.</p>
<p>And I really think something is wrong with parents who have to go on so long and hard about how wonderful their kids choice of EC is. My brothers were serious athletes - it was a very bad influence in their lives. My kids cousins have taken sports very seriously and they short changed their academics to the detriment of their education and future. Sorry - I think more kids get derailed by sports than lifted up by them.</p>
<p>And finally, if you’re really interested in the state of my physical health - I’ll share my secret with you - we got our kids out of serious sports. They were killing my DH’s and my health! No family dinners, just eating on the run, often junk. Plus we were so busy we couldn’t exercise. Best thing we ever did in terms of staying in shape.</p>
<p>I’m just glad that with the variety of colleges in this country, and with separate missions & priorities for each of them, there are places for students who excel in single pursuits, as well as those who excel in multiple pursuits. No matter how parents view sports or any other e.c., the individual colleges do & will set their own priorities & preferences, and the rationales behind those. Imagine the frenzy in places like India or China, in which a test score can determine not just what institution you attend, but practically your entire future (unless you emigrate). </p>
<p>And my understanding is that mammall’s D got into some illustrious place like Yale, showing that great U’s do indeed exercise scrutiny & discernment about what they value in a student.</p>
<p>Did I make a judgment about what “got her in”? (Positive or negative?) No, I didn’t. We don’t know what got her in, or what got mine in to the same U, do we? (Unless the committee has shared that with her or me.)</p>
<p>That wasn’t the point I was making. She could have done 10 sports, & they all – or none of them – “got her in.” I said that Y “exercised scrutiny & discernment about what they value.” So yes, if sports DID make the difference, then the acceptance confirmed that value.</p>
<p>(Mine did none, but Yale apparently did not find that a liability.)</p>
<p>Like Justamom, my kids have gone to a high school that fosters a high level of involvement and has students simultaneously involved in both athletic and non-athletic endeavors at very high levels.(We are famous for all of the football players that perform in the marching band wearing their uniforms sans helmets) My youngest son used to sing with a national recognized high school vocal ensemble that travelled internationally and he plays soccer year round at a very high level as well. He ended up dropping the ensemble this year because of the diva attitude of the musical director, but that’s another topic.</p>
<p>I showed him this thread, and he says that the most important topic that has not been touched on is the dispassionate feedback he gets in sports. There’s no room for tender feelings or subjectivity, no excuses. When you are marking up on the field, did you beat your man or did he beat you? Can you be more creative or more fast-thinking than your opponent? HOw deep can you dig and how long and hard can you work and hustle? HOw can you support a teammate and make your performance benefit his for the good of the team? Can you pull your team together to play as one instrument? How do you deal when you’re being bested by a player who is bigger, stronger, faster, better than you? What do you learn from it? </p>
<p>When he comes home after a game or practice he is very honest in his self-assessment. He can’t look in a mirror and tell himself that the judges liked the performance style of his opponent better, that it’s all subjective. He alone knows the level of his performance and of the effort he gave and whether it measured up.</p>
<p>He carries this self-awareness in to the academic arena as well. He is a strong student but can be lazy at times. But he doesn’t give excuses but instead looks in the mirror and is honest about whether he is doing the best that he can.</p>
<p>Right now he is exploring playing soccer at the D3 level because he is a student first–but he can’t imagine his life without soccer in it. But I don’t think he has ever considered soccer as something that would get him in to any college–with him it’s more along the lines of, if I can get in to some of these colleges, all of which I really like, which ones will let me keep on playing?</p>
<p>I really don’t see the point of slamming people who feel their kids got something out of high school athletics. I guarantee that they did not do it to impress anyone, but because they had fun and nurtured their bodies as well as their minds. It is just as wrong to say that only academics matters as it is to say that only sports or only fine arts matter. No aspect of education is “stupid”, not even pep rallies. Teach the WHOLE student.</p>
<p>I really don’t see how this thread got twisted into a “music/performing arts vs athletic” thread.</p>
<p>Many people (not just some on this board) have the preconceived notion that high school (and college) athletes are just a bunch of goons who are all brawn and no brain and get special perks for winning one for the home team.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Many many athletes are hard working, bright students who are involved in clubs, athletics and music.<br>
Being a blue chip recruit from our high school is pretty rare - but if I looked at the top 10 kids in each of the past 5 graduating classes probably 75% were varsity athletes and many are playing their sport at the college level.</p>
<p>The reason that college admissions like high school students who participate in athletics have already been stated ad naseum in this thread.
This is not to negate the qualities that kids who participate in music and performing arts bring to the admissions table.</p>
<p>The above poster is correct - teach the WHOLE student. Nourish the mind, body and soul.</p>