Why are Athletics so important to most colleges?

Parents Forum
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<p>Bay-</p>

<p>And no where did I suggest getting rid of sports. Even if some changes were made, it doesn’t have to interfere with people loving sports. Other countries have entirely different systems, yet they still have and love sports. And you can call the statistics I cite anecdotal, but there are many people calling for changes to be made and they come from all over the spectrum - and most of them are not “anti-sports” people, but people directly involved with athletics at all levels. There is behaviour now at the youth league levels now that never used to be there - what is it going to be like when these kids get to college age?</p>

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<p>Imagine, for a moment, a change in NCAA rules in which schools in all divisions are prohibitied from giving athletic scholarships and in which athletic departments are prohibited from communicating their preferences for students to admissions committees. What happens? Do colleges stop having athletic teams? No. Do high schools abandon athletics? No. Are college admissions committees preventing from placing a value on HS athletics in evaluating a student? No. Do some kids with great athletic ability and little interest in academics chose to bypass college? Maybe. Are those places filled by students with somewhat greater interest in academics? Probably. A better system? I think so.</p>

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<p>Oh, goodie! Fewer inner city black kids in college.</p>

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<p>Ok lets take all the money saved and use it to fund financial aid for economically disadvantaged students. Happy?</p>

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<p>“Ok lets take all the money saved and use it to fund financial aid for economically disadvantaged students. Happy?”</p>

<p>It must be the new math or something? :slight_smile: </p>

<p>Honestly, if your theory or Van’s theory were really correct wouldn’t somebody, say Steven Hawking or such brought it forth with much hoo haa and poof it works.</p>

<p>Do you really think all those college presidents are that scared? or have they done the math and found it wouldn’t work out? </p>

<p>As I said one man’s joy is another man’s folly. I support each man to pursue their joy, even if it may be a folly. </p>

<p>College is meant to be an experience of many things and ideas. </p>

<p>First they came for the Football players</p>

<p>and I did not speak out</p>

<p>because I was not a Football player.</p>

<p>Then they came for the Basketball Players</p>

<p>and I did not speak out</p>

<p>because I was not a Basketball Player.</p>

<p>Then they came for the Soccer Players</p>

<p>and I did not speak out</p>

<p>because I was not a Soccer Player.</p>

<p>Then they came for me</p>

<p>and there was no one left</p>

<p>to speak out for me.</p>

<p>With all respects to:
Pastor Martin Niem</p>

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<p>So you think it is reasonable to compare reforming college sports with state-sponsored genocide, Opie?</p>

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<p>“So you think it is reasonable to compare reforming college sports with state-sponsored genocide, Opie?”</p>

<p>Do you think you should buy one size bigger underwear? :slight_smile: these seem to be in a bunch and very uptight. :)</p>

<p>Can you not see tounge in cheek dearheart when you read it? C’mon now.</p>

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<p>Well, I’m done here. But on a final note, I’d recommend people read “Our Guys” by Bernard Lefkowitz. Perhaps it will have you reconsider the extremes our culture has gone to in its worship of athletics.</p>

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<p>I guess you are just too subtle for me, Opie.</p>

<p>I detected (or thought I did) a good deal of parental defensiveness throughout this thread. Some issues are bigger than our own families. (I’ll try to keep my own advice in mind when I post, too.)</p>

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<p>Vango, I do hope you have gained some valuable perspective. We have lots of choices , and we all need to investigate and choose wisely. There is a school out there for you and your family. It’s just that some (most?) of us would hate it.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>LOL. And some of us detected (or thought we did) a good deal of parental (and student) jealousy throught this thread . Some issues are bigger than our own families.</p>

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<p>and no, midmo. I never felt the least bit threatened. I did however feel exasperated at the closemindedness of the brain in a jar folks (failure to recognize a different viewpoint and find their own college among those that more nearly met their criteria) . It must be the jar. ;)</p>

<p>It’s not that any body on that side is asking for directions to a school that most resembles their ideal, but want instead to change the schools that do value athletic endeavor. Live and let live.</p>

<p>BTW, just by way of example. If a poster came on looking for schools that didn’t value athletic endeavor in admissions or on campus, I believe the board would be uniformly helpful in finding them a school somewhere along the continuum that met their needs. That’s really all you need to know about this discussion.</p>

<p>The market will decide which of those schools end up the most or least selective. People can vote with their feet (and in this case with their apps). It’s sort of like a restaurant. I’m fairly sure that empty healthfood starving rabbit place is far better for my heart in the abstract, but I’m going to Leal’s to wait 30 minutes to order a fajita meat burrito without the cheese.</p>

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<p>Vango,</p>

<p>You’re right, time to move on. Thanks for an interesting thread and thanks for all of the interesting and on point information sources that you cited. Many of these threads are full of “factoids”: assertions masquerading as facts.</p>

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<p>Don’t let the door hit you in the rear, curious14. It’s always loads of fun on threads like these that never change anyone’s opinion a whit. I hope you find the college you are looking for and that I never stumble upon it. ;)</p>

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<p>“brain in a jar”</p>

<p>Abby Normal?</p>

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<p>worship of athletics.</p>

<p>[If we worship athleticism, why is the shrine in Macdonalds?](<a href=“http://health.msn.com/reports/obesity/”>http://health.msn.com/reports/obesity/&lt;/a&gt; )</p>

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<p>Vango, Nobody would defend admitting unqualified athletes to prestigious schools. It is a real shame when unspohisticated kids & families are lured into a football program & allowed to play without attending classes or at least making a dent in the graduation requirements for a meaningful degree. But why assume that is always the case? The abuses get media attention. </p>

<p>What is done well by many schools is the careful nurturing of kids with potential. Good, honest programs exist. If anyone is concerned about the terrible graduation rates of black athletes in certain schools, they should chastize that program, not the entire realm of Div 1 schools. (By the way, Vango, they are not all large schools.) Two standout black student-athletes come to mind immediately. Alan Page, one of the greatest football players of all time, graduated from ND & now sits on the Minnesota Supreme Court. How about Stanford grad Cory Booker? Football star, Rhodes Scholar, Yale Law grad, current Mayor of Newark, NJ. I don’t know if either of these guys came from disadvantaged backgrounds, but I can see that their football skills served them well in life. Byron White, Gerald Ford, Pat Hayden, Steve Young, Bart Oates, Tim Green…lots of star players went on to be Rhodes Scholars & Phi Beta Kappas. They distinguised themselves in prominent careers. So I would argue that it is just plain silly to knock the sports culture of all colleges. Pick out the abusive, rule-breaking programs & sanction them, shut them down — whatever. But at least acknowledge that athletic achievements are worthy of praise, just as achievements in arts & academics.</p>

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<p>I promise this is my last post. Many of you are painting me as some extreme, anti-athletics type of person. That is in no way the case. When I suggest that there could be some athletic reform in our educational system, the opposition (using that term for lack of a better word) immediately reads it as if I’m saying get rid of athletics everywhere. I have provided what I believe are reasonable and verifiable statistics on the state of athletics in this country today. Many of these statistics are not flattering. Higher incidences of sexual assault, lower graduation rates, large amounts of money spent ($20 million stadiums for high school football in Texas). I never knocked the sports cultures of all colleges, but by your setting up an all or nothing argument, it makes it easier to dismiss the points I am trying to make. There are plenty of D-1 schools that have 0% graduation rates for their black basketball players - how can anyone think this is okay?</p>

<p>The views I expressed are echoed by many people - most of them are people who are involved with athletic programs and are dismayed at the direction things are taking. People on this forum have offered anecdotal evidence of how sports were terrific for them and their family - I don’t doubt that, but I suspect the type of parents that are drawn to this board are a certain kind of people who have good values and are actively involved in their families. A glance at headlines over the past 20 years would show a multitude of scandals involving athletes at both the professional and amatuer level. I can also provide anecdotal evidence of athletes in my school that received preferential treatment just because they were athletes (cheating that was overlooked, alcohol infractions ignored, etc.). If the school enforced its policies (athletes having to skip the remainder of the season as well as the next), they wouldn’t have enough team members left to play. </p>

<p>I think many on the opposing side of this argument have taken the position that, “sports are great, just shut up if you don’t like it and go somewhere else.” Very few have acknowledged that there are any problems at all. If athletics are so important to you, why wouldn’t you want them to be the best that they can be?</p>

<p>Lastly, I am actually a varsity athlete and have been since 9th grade. It is not how I define myself, however, and I have witnessed things that I would like to see changed, hopefully before I have kids and they are introduced to the same system.</p>

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<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=3102251#post3102251[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=3102251#post3102251&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>post #49</p>

<p>Vango-</p>

<p>When I posted on this thread initially it was in response to you as a fellow parent, as you noted in the above thread. That is why I wrote what I did. However, you are now posting as a student. I am confused.</p>

<p>Where you a parent looking for advice for your student or a student?</p>

<p>I think the integrity you are looking for in sports starts and ends with all the individuals participating.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>Good point Kat,</p>

<p>I think Vango should have to skip posting on CC for two seasons for that infraction.</p>