<p>curious , I believe adcoms do grant special preferences to those students at the top of their fields. A tuba player from D’s high school attends a top 80 Uni on a free ride for his tuba prowess only. He was a better than average student but no star. He was certainly shown preference in scholarships, and was highly ecruited by others.</p>
<p>I think my very first post on this thread mentioned Bok’s book.( Former pres at Harvard). His point was that they, the Harvard University administration and many other university presidents, that he knew, wanted to change the system but felt trapped. This is why I find it hard to accept the arguments that this is just the outcome of a rational process.</p>
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curmudgeon, I’m still new to this, but I do see plenty of student profiles where the breakdown includes percentages of students who: --played varsity sports – participated in performing arts – student council – eagle scout – community service. I don’t know how much weight is given to each one, but I bet they keep that data carefully monitored.</p>
<p>Could it be that maintaining a preference for varsity sports also serves the college’s ethnic diversity goals? I don’t mean to offend by stereotyping, but fielding a good baskteball team at a college, for example, will likely result in recruiting some African-American students. In turn, a school with a good basketball team will interest other African-American students. And at our high school at least, Asian-Americans are well-represented among the academic and musical elite, but almost non-existent among the athletic elite. Accepting only the academic elites could produce an Asian-dominant student body.</p>
<p>“wanted to change the system but felt trapped. This is why I find it hard to accept the arguments that this is just the outcome of a rational process”</p>
<p>rational process is in the eye of the beholder. At the time, in germany it was a rational process to send jews to concentration camps. In America, it was a rational process to send Japanese to internment camps. In America or at least in some parts of America it was rational to deny voting rights to people of a certain skin color. </p>
<p>rational process is a personal opinion, nothing more. At this point in time, your opinion is in the minority. Will it ever be the majority? NO. because you have centuries of history working against you. All societies value their atheletes above others. Allso there are talented student atheletes that resent your point. Not that they wouldn’t qualify anyway on their educational/talent merits, but that they can qualify in other ways than you. The student athelete is a mulitdemenisonal individual.</p>
<p>“Could it be that maintaining a preference for varsity sports also serves the college’s ethnic diversity goals?”</p>
<p>Not in elite colleges, typical ivy league teams has 30 sports, such as men’s golf (88% white), men’s lacrosse (91% white), women’s lacrosse (91% white), women’s horseback riding (93% white), women’s crew (84%), men’s skiing (90% white), women’s skiing (89% white), women’s polo (89% white) and even polo (how many minority kids play polo?)</p>
<p>bomgeedad: Could my theory have merit, then? An Ivy’s need for diversity is different than that of another type of school. One school might need to attract black kids, another might need Gentiles, another might need boys, etc. An Ivy will receive an abundance of applications from Asian applicants with near perfect academic indices, and yet they can’t accept an all-Asian student body. Maybe the sports programs give them a rationale for getting more “under-achieving” white kids in the door, lol!</p>
<p>Polo?! Or do you mean water polo?</p>
<p>TheGFG, most public schools do not offer lacrosse, crew, squash, skiing or golf teams, private school such as Andover does. So if you are saying sports programs give elite school a rationale for getting more “under-achieving” upper class white kids in the door, it is a reasonable assumption.</p>
<p>Polo, the horse kind, are offered at Cornell and Virginia. And it even promotes diversity, attracting the international super-rich.</p>
<p>our public schools do have lacrosse, in fact several of the players on the national teams are from local city schools. Our local parks dept, offers crew, just as community centers also sponsor soccer and basketball teams.
My daughter is currently playing rugby, a city team, coached with volunteers ( one of who teaches in her high school).
She learned to snowboard, through a program in 6th grade, which her public school sponsors ( and gives some students full support with equipment, clothing and lessons).</p>
<p>She is planning on playing on the tennis team in the spring, another sport that is considered elitist, but while the past few springs she has been on the track and field team, her asthma is really starting to interfere, she is hoping that as tennis isn’t so intense, it will be easier on her.</p>
<p>I understand that different communities favor different sports. Few sponsor curling teams anymore for example- but [athletics make you smarter](<a href=“Exercise, Workout, and Fitness Center: Yoga, Cardio, Strength Training, and More”>Exercise, Workout, and Fitness Center: Yoga, Cardio, Strength Training, and More)
I don’t think it really matters what sort of exercise you do, just as long as you do it.</p>
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<p>That’s really funny. LOL. And true. If you can afford to bring, board, and care for a string of polo ponies we might be able to move that kid to another category. I can’t afford the 3 1200 pound thieves at my house. </p>
<p>And I disagree with Opie that the current system of preference will continue forever. I believe there is probably a cycle to this civilization thing (although I find plenty to dread in that thought) and if and when western civilization no longer controls the west, the preference system will undoubtedly change.</p>
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I agree. Sorry my post was unclear. I was just trying to say I don’t know how specific they get in their tracking.
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<p>It’s like an argument I have had many times on this board when posters say - “such and such a school doesn’t value/favor/give preference to, with all-else-being equal, valedictorians or salutatorians”. I find the website and see that in their class profile they show to prospectives and parents of prospectives the school proudly boasts "20% of the incoming class is a val. 32% are val or sal. " Yeah, they couldn’t care less. They just use it in their advertising to describe their student body. LOL. ;)</p>
<p>FYI, from Harvard’s athletics mission statement:</p>
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<p>Re: Post 394</p>
<p>I.m.o. the sportsmanship aspect is possibly the most valuable (just my perspective), encompassing the many manifestations of that which were enumerated. People tend to stress the teamwork & commitment & leadership aspects, but often leave out the other character & behavioral qualities demanded of & revealed in, sports participation.</p>
<p>(Spoken by one with no children in sports, but who supports this feature of college life & this factor in admissions.)</p>
<p>“I believe there is probably a cycle to this civilization thing (although I find plenty to dread in that thought) and if and when western civilization no longer controls the west, the preference system will undoubtedly chan”</p>
<p>Actually, what that is considered sport, will change( example snowboarding, x-games), not the cultural desire to appreicate sport. When I posted, I started thinking back into history and every civilization had some sort of sport that the masses could enjoy. Native Americans had LAX, the Aztecs had a version of soccer basketball (using the heads of defeated emeny) the greeks and the romans had their sports and of course the Scottish had Haggis. More of a dare than a sport, but still sporting to watch. </p>
<p>Sport is the closest thing a society has to war. We will always have an appreication for sport, because always feel the need for an outlet for war and we are a “team” society. From our politics down.</p>
<p>
Bomgeedad, I don’t think this is true at all. Most sports gain popularity by region: Skiing & hockey up north, swimming down south. I grew up in a blue collar town on the Passaic River. It is now about 35% black/hispanic. Close to 10% of the people fall below the poverty line. Yet it has a long established crew program & has sent kids to the Olympics. Being on the river is key. Soccer was the town’s biggest sport because it had a huge Irish/Scottish immigrant population. Now hispanics dominate & soccer is as strong as ever. Again, kids from this modest town have reached the Olympics in that sport.</p>
<p>Most of the middle class towns around here (like mine) do offer lacrosse & golf & ice hockey. Mine offers crew.</p>
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Now who wouldn’t like haggis? (Thanks for the chuckle.) Actually it’s the caber toss , is it not?</p>
<p>the Aztecs had a version of soccer basketball (using the heads of defeated emeny. I know the mayans at chichen itza had something like that. I have stood on the field. The bizarre part to me in their tradition was the winning captain was sacrificed. I can see their draft day. “I’ll take the man with no legs.” “Give me Paul the portly”. "Blind Pete get over here with us.</p>
<p>This site suggest it may not have been the captains but that’s what our well paid guide said. ;)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.differentworld.com/mexico/places/chichen_itza/chichen_itza.htm[/url]”>http://www.differentworld.com/mexico/places/chichen_itza/chichen_itza.htm</a></p>
<p>I think I would rather try the caber toss than haggis- I haven’t even tried * lutefisk!*
<a href=“http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Post/601319[/url]”>Caber Toss;