<p>I do not think anyone should jump into taking out loans before they have considered other possibilities, first. </p>
<p>Debt has a way of hanging over your head. It can impact other purchasing decisions, like buying a home. Or paying your bills.</p>
<p>Soozie & kluge, I am with you that I would take out loans for my kid’s education. Luckily we didn’t have to; when the stock market bubble burst, I took a second job instead, and she had gotten a significant amount of merit aid. But we were already prepared with a HELOC and would have drawn on it if we had to, rather than force her to transfer from a (private) school she loved.</p>
<p>BUT - and it’s a pretty big BUT - those loans would still need to be affordable for us. I don’t think an $80,000 loan would have been.</p>
<p>And I’m one of those helping out their kid after graduation. She is in a very competitive industry, making her connections and doing very well career-wise, but living in an area in which she really can’t yet support herself. (But what we give her is less than tuition!) Would she have been better off if we had spent everything for college, and had nothing left to help her now? I don’t think so.</p>
<p>Again, though, I think that the families that value education would have been saving all along, and wouldn’t necessarily face the $80,000 loan once the kid was in high school.</p>
<p>My parents told me that I could go to whichever school gave me the most money. Our state public was not very good at the time, and I was lucky in that a “name brand” school gave me a lot of aid. It wasn’t my first choice, but it was the least expensive. Guess where I went? Yup. And even though I didn’t like it, I’ve done pretty well in life, and am very happy that my parents were comfortable in their final years. (I took out student loans, in my own name, and paid them off. That was my responsibility.)</p>
<p>I’ve been following this thread with a sort of morbid fascination. OP - do you really presume that most families do not carefully research college options for their beloved children? We have done almost nothing else (at least it seems like it) since DD hit junior year.</p>
<p>Just to add another perspective, I started college at an expensive private LAC. During freshman year, my family suffered a severe financial reversal & I had to come home & put myself through a nearby state school. Do I regret it? Absolutely not - it is the accomplishment that I am most proud of in my life & that convinced me that I am strong and resilient. No one has ever been more excited to walk in their college graduation ceremony.</p>
<p>collegehelp, please read this thread:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1572399-so-what-do-you-do-adult-child-living-home.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1572399-so-what-do-you-do-adult-child-living-home.html</a>
and then tell me how happy the parent would be if she had taken out loans to support her children through school, and how “successful” they’d be?</p>
<p>" We took PP and then worked to get them paid down, fast. " - That might not be so easy while you are paying for college for that kid… .and maybe another kid(s) afterward. Although I’m not a big fan of parents going into debt, it seems to make a little more sense if it is the last kid and the parents are young-ish. Then there would be a a reprieve afterward to start loan pay-down.</p>
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<p>This is EXACTLY why I think some people make too much of the importance of the “right” undergrad institution, and are willing to blow all their resources to make the kid’s dream come true at age 17 or 18. Despite having attended an elite school and graduating with a practical degree and no debt, I have since endured job loss through relocation and mass layoffs, a forced move to a worse employment market, a divorce and other setbacks. So I can attest to how hard it can be to stay on track when things don’t go according to plan. The amount of money I have been able to contribute to my kids’ education has nothing to do with valuing or not valuing it as much as anyone else does.</p>
<p>I read that 26% of Princeton women marry Princeton men</p>
<p>Oh well then, now we know… </p>
<p>Folks…if you love your DD’s then you’ll borrow your life to send her to Princeton…otherwise she might end up with someone from…omg…Purdue.</p>
<p>lol</p>
<p>This is a very good thread with lots of good discussion. My DD is applying to several out-of-state schools which she would like to attend and they are all very good private schools. However, we also asked her to apply (which she did) to the in-state public schools where tuition is lower. Even though we have sent her to a private elementary school and high school we have managed to save a decent amount for college. We told her we only have so much to spend and the school she attends will depend on how much financial aid she receives. I think that’s fair and I really don’t want to take out a PP loan.</p>
<p>On the flip side, one of her good friends, who she grew up with, but did not attend school with, was told by her parents that they would not pay anything for her college education. If she wanted to attend school, be it a state university, or the local community college, she would have to pay it all herself. I find this unbelievable since both parents have good jobs (he’s an engineer and she’s an accountant), their house has been paid off for years and they have no debts. He recently purchase a brand new Cadillac and she purchased a Nissan Pathfinder (paid cash fro both). Now he’s learning to ride a motorcycle and has purchased a new Harley. I know people can do what they want, but living this lifestyle and telling their children that they will not help with college tuition is unconscionable.</p>
<p>Anyway, that’s my venting for the day. Hope every student can attend their top college. Good luck everyone!!</p>
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<p>Based on the situation as you’ve outlined it I would agree with you. I do think that this sort of situation is fairly unusual and is not really the same as the OP’s premise which is, should parents take out big loans in order to enable their child to attend a more expensive school than they can otherwise afford. The people you describe clearly don’t care whether their child goes to college at all, which is a whole different proposition.</p>
<p>I was just going to add that I recall seeing threads from college help in '06-'07 and participating in threads with collegehelp in '07-'08. At the time, I thought that collegehelp was about the same age as my oldest - high school class of 2008.</p>
<p>One thing that is important to remember. Sticker price of college tuition is just sticker price. It will vary based on other factors. It is always wise o run the Net Price Calculator for each specific school, because there are things like family income to consider, number of children in college, etc.</p>
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<p>Unfortunately, that was not the case in my family. We had not saved up for the kids’ college educations. My kids qualified for need based aid and also got merit aid. They also were left money from their grandparents to put toward college. Still, we had to take out loans. </p>
<p>Another post mentions staying close to home and others mention their state universities. Our state university is a very nice school that I would not hesitate to send my kids to. However, for starters, the college doesn’t offer either of my kids’ majors. My oldest received a FULL RIDE there (had not planned to apply), but it was not a good fit. Further, when one of my kids got into many prestigious graduate schools, we let her pick the best fit, which was not nearly the one with the best scholarship. However, as time went on in her two grad schools, she received more fellowships and scholarships, though we still had to take out loans as well. This isn’t about prestige. For example, in her second round of grad school, she turned down Stanford which offered a much higher scholarship than her chosen program at Berkeley (though she later received more from them after the first year). </p>
<p>I think this is a very personal choice. For example, some on this thread paid for private K-12 (my kids went to public) . Still others, are supporting their kids post college graduation (we do not). We did let our kids pick any college and grad school based on best fit and it did involve taking out loans in addition to fin. aid and scholarships. It has been worth it, in my view. Others may feel differently and I respect that.</p>
<p>And no discussion of loans and debt should ignore the actuarial tables. If you had kids when you were 22 and are looking at parent loans, your situation is very different from a parent who had kids at 40. In one case, the parent may still have a lot of career runway left- promotions, opportunities for advancement and financial rewards, etc, and in the other, the parent may be looking at a mandatory retirement policy at work and wondering if the local Walmart needs Greeters for the graveyard shift.</p>
<p>I think the entire discussion of deciding “how much is too much” is just too arbitrary for strangers to be weighing in. A person who is self-employed, buying health care out of pocket, in an industry with lots of ups and downs, has an entirely different risk profile from someone who is an employee with a secure job and generous employer paid benefits. So those two folks could show up with the same income on some arbitrary chart, yet have very different appetites and abilities to take on debt at any given point. A single parent looks different than someone in a two earner family- one of whom might decide to get a better paying job once the last kid is out of HS. Someone paying alimony and child support… you get the idea.</p>
<p>IRL I’m not sure I know any parents who regret taking on debt for their kids college education. I know plenty of people who refused- more out of an anachronistic “I paid my way through and so can he” sense than out of a lack of borrowing capacity or financial resources. That generally doesn’t work so well- the kids attend the local non-flagship State U, studying something they hate but which allegedly promises a comfy paycheck, working part time and on the 7 or 8 year plan in order to “pay as you go” which mom and dad allegedly did back in the 1970’s. Then the parents get steamed that the kid burns out, drops out, and decides that college is for losers.</p>
<p>Me- I’d rather take on the debt, knowing my own borrowing capacity and ability to generate enough income to pay it off, then saddle my kid with a huge disincentive to get a degree. But I was lucky- we planned for 18 years for each kids college education, and frankly, made career choices which many people would not have made in order to maximize our income early in our marriage. I would have borrowed if we hadn’t saved enough, but for sure don’t criticize other people who wouldn’t.</p>
<p>Except for one neighbor. Why the granite countertops and big screen TV and brand new cars every other year is more important than the kids education really confounds me. And December in Vail and February in Grand Cayman… I mean really. And I’m the dope who sent my kids to private U’s when they could have majored in Leisure Studies at the college down the street?</p>
<p>It sounds like your plan worked for your family Soozie and I can’t imagine anyone here would have an issue with that as it is your personal decision. I think the issue here is that the OP seems to think parents OWE their children the most “prestigious” education even if it is necessary to borrow heavily. The OP doesn’t talk about the best fit but about the “elite ness” of the university. </p>
<p>I still don’t believe any parent OWES their child a college education although in our family we WANTED to make it possible for our 4 children to attend and graduate from college w/o loans. We have been fortunate that between scholarships, savings, and kids working and saving we have done that so far- the youngest is now a freshman in college. We also live very frugally- old cars, camping vacations, house could use some repairs, etc. Our neighbors just finished a backyard/pool repair, house remodel, take frequent expensive vacations, and both drive new BMW’s, yet they do not help their kids with college at all. While we think that is very strange it is their business. They say no one helped them and they think it builds character- I wonder if they realize how much college costs have increased?? I do have to say their kids are very hard workers and seem to be getting through OK although one told me he will have large loans. </p>
<p>I just do not like the way the OP presented this discussion, but have no issue with those who CHOOSE to fund education with loans.</p>
<p>Yes, of course none of us can spend other people’s money, but I do question (to myself) those who have had the benefit of a college education but will do NOTHING financially to help make their children have that same opportunity. Even if they funded their own college education decades ago (which some of us on this website have done), most of us are quite willing to help be sure our kids are able to get a college degree and graduate without crushing debt.</p>
<p>“Taking on debt” does not necessarily involve loans for parents. You take on “debt” by paying a kid’s tuition, room and board,etc, using your savings and current income. For most middle class parents, even that is a stretch. After 8 straight years of full instate tuition (and yes, expecting our kids to take modest loans to contribute to that since they did not pay any tuition or bills upfront ), next year we may finally get to some deferred maintenance on our house. My kids did not “pay as you go” and graduated with no problems graduating in 4 years from their state schools. I really can’t think of anybody I know in real life who has refused to help their kids with college expenses. I have heard of kids who have taken longer in college but in general they did not seem to be the best students to begin with.</p>
<p>Our neighbors across the street from us both are college graduates but both saw no need to offer any of their 3 boys the opportunity for any education beyond HS. One joined the military and hated it. He now lives with them and works part-time at 7-11 and helps as caregiver from his disabled brother. The disabled brother has taken a few art classes and does pursue his artwork. The 3rd became a “rigger” for film work and makes more money than either of his parents, according to them. They kept asking H why he didn’t retire and he kept saying he had tuition bills to pay (private HS & then college).</p>
<p>Sevmom- the NY metro area is full of parents who graduated from CUNY in the 1970’s and 80’s when it was truly possible to “work your way through college”, graduate in four years, get into a top med school, law school, etc, and be comfortably upper middle class when their kids are college age. They truly believe they are doing their kids a favor by making them “self sufficient” in paying for college, the reality of current sticker price notwithstanding (and the parents income and assets mean no need based aid. And even small, local scholarships are usually “merit” but go to kids with need.)</p>
<p>It’s a head scratcher. The highly motivated of these kids do fine. They get into Macauley, get a free ride at Baruch, or big merit award at Queens. They live at home, take public transportation to school, work like crazy for both school and cash. Maybe it takes an extra semester or two, but they do it.</p>
<p>The less motivated flounder- plus their HS stats are not generally top of the heap, so they are not getting the huge merit awards that the stars are getting at these public U’s. I see these kids and think that at the right U (which their parents can comfortably afford, at least from the vantage point of their consumption) some of them would flourish, not flounder. But with a 20 hour a week job, plus some odd tutoring or computer programming jobs on weekends to generate cash, there’s just not enough time and attention paid to being a college kid.</p>
<p>How many parents end up not using up all of the college savings due to such choices or events (as chosen or otherwise determined by the kid, not forced on the kid by the parents) such as:
<p>The one head scratcher for me is a family we know(through husband’s work) that has 3 kids -all 3 went to different service academies-Naval, Coast Guard , Merchant Marine. It is none of my business so have no clue if it is service related, free tuition related, parental pressure involved or not,etc. Just seemed an interesting thing that all of their kids ended up in different service academies.</p>