<p>Blossom, not me. I’m trying to point out that is an attitude too prevalent on this thread. The “you” who are so proud-- that meant posters, not “you” the less able family. Hinting the less able family wasted money, could simply cut back on dinners out or put off re-doing the kitchen (and the earlier idea that their own retirement concerns are misplaced) doesn’t seem to reflect an understanding that a lot of families do the best they can and there isn’t much left over. I’ve said it so many time I hate to repeat it. </p>
<p>Pizza Girl sums it up- some families are already driving a beater to the ground. </p>
<p>If the kid could find a great deal at something between elite and bottom, fine- if it’s truly affordable. But OP posed it as Princeton, JHU or similar, with a huge loan that equaled 100% (or later 75%) of annual income, versus a “mediocre” with lowlife sorts to drag him down and wreck his life. On this thread, I actually thought we needed you-know-who’s Dad.</p>
<p>I sent my kids to public schools that didn’t cost me (well, aside from property taxes). But I’m perfectly willing to admit that Exeter et al would have provided a “better” education. But I wasn’t willing to spend that kind of money and compromise our lifestyle when our public schools were, indeed, good enough for their purposes. </p>
<p>Don’t you get, collegehelp, that people could feel that way about state flagship vs pricey private?</p>
<p>And I love how all of a sudden an expenditure you didn’t or wouldn’t want to make is “unnecessary” or a bad idea.</p>
<p>This thread is bothering me a lot. When I was a child, we had a lot of dinners that consisted of macaroni and cheese, other dinners that consisted of fish-sticks, other dinners that consisted of corn and tomatoes, and other dinners that consisted of hot dogs wrapped in pastry . . . and similar meals, as well as Velveeta sandwiches at lunch time. We did occasionally have steak. However, I recall very vividly my mother’s remark to me when I was in high school that the family was spending too much money on food.</p>
<p>To put this situation into context, I should add that my father very nearly starved to death in a German POW camp–they were down to 400 calories per day in March and April 1945. This meant that abundant food was very important to the family.</p>
<p>I have not the slightest doubt that both of my parents loved me deeply. I also thought that the meals were perfectly fine. Actually, my mother was quite a good cook, though it might not be evident from my list.</p>
<p>However, I am on record on other threads as saying that I had to turn down acceptances to MIT and Some Ivy, because the amount of debt that I was expected to assume struck me as ridiculous in light of my family’s finances.</p>
<p>To suggest that people who have not saved up $80,000 per child, to permit the children to attend their “dream” schools, have been improvident or wasting money–well, this just strikes me as terribly out of touch with how many people in the moderate income ranges live. It is actually hurtful. Please reconsider, and modify your messages, if you are posting that sort of thing.</p>
<p>macaroni and cheese casserole with potato chips on top? You are describing week night meals during my childhood. It had never actually occurred to me they were budget friendly, though I suppose that was the reason. Grilled velveeta sandwiches? Lunch. Or peanut butter. I just thought that was the menu of the 60s.</p>
<p>I have extremely successful friends from backgrounds where their parents couldn’t do much for them financially. However, they did give them wholehearted support and encouragement. They knew they were more important than anything else in their parent’s eyes. They knew their parents believed they could do anything. I think that feeling helps facilitate great success in life. Just based on anecdotal observations.</p>
<p>adding: Way up-thread SlitheyTove made the point that, on the same income, it is sometimes impossible to do as much for our children as our parents did for us with regard to college tuition. College just costs a lot more. I don’t think cutting our food budgets will make up the difference. There is too big a gap.</p>
<p>I don’t know what I think about all this retirement planning. I guess I’m a grasshopper. I do have a friend who lost almost all her childrens set-aside tuition money in 08, but her financial planner did very nicely through the whole catastrophe. I remember someone mentioning financial planners and retirement accounts upthread. </p>
<p>I am sure there are many decent, honest financial planners reading this board. I wish you’d been advising my friend.</p>
Mmmph, aint that the truth! I’m doing just fine and blossoming at my mediocre university. My mom doesn’t have to give me $80,000 to show that she loves me and believes in me.</p>
<p>But it would be a different feeling if you were my relative’s child and were told it wasn’t worth it to spend the $80,000 when Dad could retire at 55 and do something fun for a change. I don’t think Kluge and I have an overlapping social circle, but we seem to know similar types.</p>
<p>There are a lot of different ideas going on in this thread.</p>
<p>adding: Niquii - I am positive you will excel at anything you attempt. Your posts are excellent. I am enjoying many of your ideas.</p>
<p>He gets to retire early because his own college & professional school were paid for his parents. His house was pretty much bought by parents. And he has an inheritance. or two. or three. I wrote about it upthread. His kids will probably eventually inherit several times what a private school education would cost. If he doesn’t decide to leave it to charity or something. It will be interesting to see what they do with their own kids.</p>
<p>Thank you, alh. It was very sweet of you to say that.</p>
<p>Here’s sort of an “other side” approach on this matter. Would the child want their parents to be plagued by a debt that, in their case, would be burdensome so they can go to a dream school?</p>
<p>I think that is what QuantMech is describing. (maybe I’m flat out wrong) I’m probably on the same page. I am imagining what is best for the whole family and doing the best for the children within that context. That is where my relative is failing miserably imho.</p>
<p>My father worked 5 to 10 years longer than was really necessary because my mother was very concerned about retirement. He was retired for about three months, in the middle of a long planned and much anticipated project when he died very unexpectedly. My mother never really recovered from the guilt. I am a huge fan of early retirement when it makes sense. I guess we all have to judge the sensible part for ourselves. Kluge is working past “normal” retirement age for the benefit of his children and I admire that greatly.</p>
<h1>693 All us kids would definitely have eaten steak every day if it had been on offer.</h1>
<p>adding: I have been really restraining myself from this brag but here goes… last holiday I overheard the kids (all grown) discussing long term goals, one of which was being in a position to “take care of mom and dad” Husband and I smiled a very long time over that. It will not be necessary but it’s good to know we have that net :)</p>
<p>I might indeed feel differently if someone had the kind of resources you describe.</p>
<p>While I continue to think that a “dream school” is not a necessity, I get that if parents are wealthy and choose not to help kids, it would be hard not to feel resentful. </p>
<p>Someone said earlier that there were a lot of ideas in this thread, and I think that’s true.</p>
<p>“Mom and Dad are completely selfish if they don’t sacrifice all for kids.”</p>
<p>“Mom and Dad should do the best they can with what they have.”</p>
<p>“Some people are already on the edge, can’t save money, and are not foolish spenders.”</p>
<p>“Some people could not reasonably have saved $80,000 for each child, nor would it be reasonable for them to borrow that amount.”</p>
<p>I may also have gone off track myself, because I thought somewhere along the line, we were talking about an ADDITIONAL $80,000, beyond what a good state university would cost. I apologize if I misunderstood. </p>
<p>For us, that would mean spending the approximately $160,000 we have saved for college and going into debt for ANOTHER $160,000. That may not have been what the posters meant.</p>
<p>I would not be surprised if many posters here would have unkind words for wealthy parents who could comfortably fund their kids’ college but choose not to (assuming that the kid is academically and socially ready for college).</p>
<p>However, these parents are not the ones who need to borrow $80,000 or other large amount in parent loans in order to fund their kids’ college.</p>
<p>In my kids’ case–NO WAY. They are always telling me I need to do more for myself because I have sacrificed so much for them. (My sister and I still have to tell our father the same thing.) My kids both recognize the value of money and are confident that their college choices–for one, a small, lesser-known LAC on a generous scholarship and for the other (most likely) a decent state flagship–will get them where they want to go.</p>
<p>^^^Moneymom, the original premise was: send kid to a “mediocre state school” or borrow $80,000 per child on a 30 year note to send kid to a prestigious top 30 private school. So the OP is assuming the parent is funding the state school but needs the loan to bridge the gap to the private.</p>
<p>I’ve only had one person in my circle of friends that expressed regret for taking too many annual vacations (generally to warm sunny places in the winter) instead of saving more for her kids’ educations.</p>
<p>How much to spend on ones kids’ education is such a personal decision. One couple we know is paying for state university out of pocket and tightening already tight belts. One couple started saving in a 529 for their newborn and will have a healthy education fund. One couple didn’t save enough (see above), and are borrowing a great deal of money just for the state flagship, and they are dealing with an unexpected diagnosis of Parkinson’s in one of the parents. One couple sent their first-of-3-kids to an expensive private for the first year (no scholarship, so student loans and parent plus loans, to the state flagship (ditto, no scholarship and full loans) for the second year and now the kid is at a CC for this year (backwards, expensive decision). One kid has a trust fund and he and his financial advisor agreed that while he could afford more, it made more sense to spend state flagship prices for an engineering degree.</p>
<p>I stated many pages back that we have a set amount we are willing to spend per kid, per year. The money will come out of their 529 plans plus current income. What I didn’t mention is that my spouse has a rare form of arthritis (Ankylosing spondylitis) that is causing his spine to fuse together even now in his 50s. He will retire immediately after we pay for college. And we don’t see the point of a more prestigious (or more expensive) college beyond the state flagship because the kids are going into engineering. And that isn’t because of the arthritis- that has been a known issue for a long time. It’s just the values that we have- we view state flagships as an excellent educational opportunity. And everyone has values that are different. This thread has been fascinating to read, if only to read the different viewpoints. I see some of my similar values in some posts and still say “***?!?!” to other posts.</p>
<p>About 10 years ago there was a study done that was based on actual cross-admits…students who were admitted to both colleges. Schools were ranked based on where the cross-admits decided to go. There is a table near the end of the paper that shows the ranking and the percentage of “draws” that were won by one school over the other. The statistics are actually pretty complicated but it seems that Johns Hopkins won 95% of the “draws” with, for example, William and Mary, which is one of the best state colleges in the country. Generally speaking, schools win the vast majority of the draws with schools ranked only 20 positions below it.</p>
<p>I think I am interpreting this article correctly. Check it out.</p>
<p>“We show how to construct a ranking of U.S. undergraduate programs based on students’ revealed preferences.” “…the colleges students prefer when they can choose among them.”</p>
<p>Thing is, it’s hs kids. And, no surprise all the Ivies and the other usual suspects appear in the top, across all regions.</p>