<p>Sevmom, college help appears to have gone to Cornell.</p>
<p>Cornell is not immune to “bad influences” including stupidity with alcohol.</p>
<p>[Cornell</a> Big Red fires lacrosse coach Ben DeLuca after hazing scandal - ESPN](<a href=“http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9976183/cornell-big-red-fires-lacrosse-coach-ben-deluca-hazing-scandal]Cornell”>Cornell Big Red fires lacrosse coach Ben DeLuca after hazing scandal - ESPN)
[George</a> Desdunes Cornell](<a href=“http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/george-desdunes-cornell]George”>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/george-desdunes-cornell)</p>
<p>Nrdsb4-I have read that more selective schools have significantly less marijuana smoking, cigarette smoking, and they have better diet (fewer weight problems). I’m glad your daughter had little contact with these problems; she was probably in with a good crowd. It isn’t like that for everybody. And, I am talking about proportions. Most kids are probably pretty decent at every college. But, I have different images of my (limited) experience at a lower-tier school…even a knife fight. Honestly. Marijuana smoking almost every night (not me).</p>
<p>How do you explain the large difference in graduation rates between lower-tier schools and upper-tier schools. If a student is good enough to be accepted at a top-30 school, he or she would probably be among the 50% or 60% who graduate from the lower-tier school. But, what must life be like at a school that only graduates 50% of its students? How are they spending their time (the drop-outs)? I don’t think they are studying. What kind of work ethic are the students learning? What must the culture and climate be like? I don’t think the students at the lower-tier public schools are dropping out in droves due to financial reasons (although some might).</p>
<p>There is a very high correlation between graduation rates and SAT scores. There is also a moderate correlation between net price for the higher income ranges and graduation rates.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Oh, for the love of God. Got any sources? Of course, you didn’t seem to have read the last bit of research you posted (and it didn’t support your specious claims), so I am not sure why I am asking.</p>
<p>qSo many of you apply the yerm “prestige” in a dismissive fashion. There are real differences in quality among the more selective schools.</p>
<p>Not in quality.
In fit. In atmosphere, in attractiveness to Joseph as opposed to Jaye.</p>
<p>*
I have read that more selective schools have significantly less marijuana smoking, cigarette smoking, and they have better diet (fewer weight problems).*</p>
<p>I don’t doubt that you have read this somewhere, but you seem awfully gullible if you believe it.</p>
<p>College Selectivity and Young Adult Health Behaviors
[ERIC</a> - College Selectivity and Young Adult Health Behaviors, Economics of Education Review, 2011-Oct](<a href=“ERIC - Education Resources Information Center”>ERIC - EJ936124 - College Selectivity and Young Adult Health Behaviors, Economics of Education Review, 2011-Oct)</p>
<p>“Large literatures have shown important links between the quantity of completed education and health outcomes on one hand and the quality or selectivity of schooling on a host of adult outcomes, such as wages, on the other hand. However, little research attempts to produce evidence of the link between school quality and health. The paper presents the first evidence in the literature on the potential short and intermediate term effects of attending a selective college on health behaviors during and following college attendance. Using a variety of empirical methods, this paper shows strong evidence that college selectivity reduces tobacco and marijuana use but has small and possibly positive effects on binge drinking. The effects on weight behaviors are suggestive of reduced weight, potentially through diet, but not exercise change.”</p>
<p>This study did not show the alcohol effect but I have seen in elsewhere.</p>
<p>To whom it may concern: If you use the same condescending and harsh demeanor with your children, I suggest you tone it down a bit. Just some helpful advice…for the sake of your kids.</p>
<p>Any comments from anyone on the graduation rate issue?</p>
<p>Um. College help, I think you were the one who started off with a judgmental statement, to which others naturally reacted negatively.</p>
<p>I think it’s just best to say that many people don’t agree with you, and it’s not worth the time to argue with you about it. Have your opinion.</p>
<p>If I continually pushed an agenda that had really no evidence, and ignored any evidence to the contrary, or if I had a superiority attitude where I thought there was a “wrong kind” of people, you’d bet your bottom dollar I’d hope my parents talked to me with a “harsh demeanor”. </p>
<p>They were the first to call out my BS and I’m grateful for it. </p>
<p>I don’t have kids so I can’t speak to what I’d personally do.</p>
<p>I cannot believe this thread has persisted for as long as it has.</p>
<p>Better diet/weight? You have no idea how BAD the food is at some?</p>
<p>OP what is up with you? Haha. I don’t speak to my children this way because they don’t posit this sort of stuff and then go back to, well I read it somewhere. You are missing our points and, it seems, not fully reading, absorbing and analyzing your own links before using them as proofs. Ummm.</p>
<p>Can you explain whether you fully engaged at Cornell or mostly stuck to a narrow group of friends with the same majors/interests. And, no offense intended, but have you lived in the US your entire life? Because some of your views seem sheltered.</p>
<p>romani, you are an honorary parent.</p>
<p>I was determined not to respond anymore, SLS, until that last remark lol. I’ll stop giving cookies now…</p>
<p>ndabunka, if you’re in the top 5% of America’s income strata, you should understand what n=1 means. I know a very successful man who tells people that his alma mater is “St. Elizabeth’s” - his high school, because he didn’t graduate from any college. I also know more than one Ivy League graduate who is, in my opinion, an unremarkable person.</p>
<p>However, that doesn’t prove that dropping out of college will result in a better life than graduating from Harvard in most cases. I believe that more often than not the opposite is true. </p>
<p>What you are stating, in my opinion, is a rationalization. In many cases your proposition will not result in negative consequences. But overall, I think that your approach to your childrens’ education would, over a sample size of a million kids, result in less positive outcomes overall.</p>
<p>I saved early for our three kids, and when they were all in college at the same time - 2008 - the fund I had set up didn’t go as far as I had anticipated. College costs increased by over 50% from when my oldest graduated high school until my youngest graduated college, but the 529 plans didn’t grow. Stuff happened. I ended up borrowing a lot of money - way more than I ever antiicapted.
That didn’t happen for us. I don’t feel any obligation to maintain my “current lifestyle.” It’s nice, but I’ve lived on less before, and could do it again. Given a choice, I’d elect to lower my current standard of living, and my anticipated standard of living in retirement if necessary to give my kids the best opportunity to achieve the best life they can experience. Granted - I’m not living paycheck to paycheck like some folks, and I understand the difference in our situations. But as a “5%er” that’s really not an issue for you either, is it?</p>
<p>Your priorities may vary.</p>
<p>I would not argue against collegehelp, because I don’t see the point of arguing against a nonsense. But now I feel the need to say something, because collegehelp’s argument is now becoming not only illogical, but insulting.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I went to CC and then transferred to a state university, definitely not a “top-tier,” not even a “second-tier” school. I would say it was a “third-tier” school. At the time, due to family situation, it was the best could afford. Many, probably 30%, of my classmates were full-time workers, part-time students. About 50% part-time workers, full-time students. About 10% full-time workers, full-time students. Many of them were heads of families. Only about 10% were full-time students, maybe working part-time but the part-time jobs were not essential to their livelihood.</p>
<p>What kind of work ethic do you think the 90% of the students had? From what I know, they had to struggle every single day just to show up at school. They were not the smartest students, but man oh man, they worked hard!</p>
<p>Yes, most of them took much more than 4 years to get their BS degree. And many of them had to drop out. I don’t know “how they spend their time.” It’s a strange concept to you, but the main reason was likely that they had to work, and/or to take care of their families. I know they were not druggies and drunks. I had to admit that many of the boys smoked cigarettes, however.</p>
<p>Many of them did manage to graduate, I was one of them. About the work ethic, let me tell you this: during an annual performance review, the director of engineering told me, “I couldn’t believe anyone could work as hard as and as long as you do. I know that people can work hard in burst, but going as you are in the last 3 years is just impossible. Most, if not all, would get burnt out already.”</p>
<p>Yes, except for the first years of my employment, my income has always been at the top 10% of professionals with similar length of service. And yes, many engineers reporting to me graduated from so-called “top-tier” schools.</p>
<p>A few of collegehelp’s offensive statements</p>
<p>It seems that the values are upside down and parents are short-sighted.
Many parents “know the price of everything but the value of nothing”.
Where is the warmth? Dare I ask the question? How much do you love your children?
There is some freedom to choose your friends in college but you can’t completely avoid the undesirable element which, I suspect, is greater at lower-tier schools. The environment is such that you may be pressured to spend time with, and even bond with, students who have undesirable qualities. </p>
<p>Some parents need to clean up their act. I don’t buy the live-and-let-live philosophy although I respect a broad range of acceptable parental practices. I have values and I think some parents are lousy to their kids. If the shoe fits, wear it. Sorry if some good parents take offense. </p>
<p>If you’re gonna start the fight, don’t be surprised if someone throws a punch</p>
<p>Posted by Kludge…
Quote:
What you are stating, in my opinion, is a rationalization. In many cases your proposition will not result in negative consequences. But overall, I think that your approach to your childrens’ education would, over a sample size of a million kids, result in less positive outcomes overall.</p>
<p>I saved early for our three kids, and when they were all in college at the same time - 2008 - the fund I had set up didn’t go as far as I had anticipated. College costs increased by over 50% from when my oldest graduated high school until my youngest graduated college, but the 529 plans didn’t grow…</p>
<p>Quote:ZERO impact to our current lifestyle and ZERO impact to our retirement savings models…
That didn’t happen for us. I don’t feel any obligation to maintain my “current lifestyle.” It’s nice, but I’ve lived on less before, and could do it again. Given a choice, I’d elect to lower my current standard of living, and my anticipated standard of living in retirement if necessary to give my kids the best opportunity to achieve the best life they can experience…"</p>
<p>Yes, I may have rationalized a bit and (so far) the results of the 529’s and UTMA’s has been pretty good for us so we have been lucky. As far as living standards, one of the reasons we’ve done well is because we live within our means (only one car loan at a time, smaller house than most of the people in my income bracket, minimal mortgage with less than 9 years left to pay off, etc). We do vacation but don’t (typically) spent a lot on them. Don’t belong to country clubs or any of those other things. Bottom line is that we should be able to cover costs even if those costs exceeded his 529’s directly out of pocket but based off my experience with others over the years, there is NO REAL difference between attending the UNC, NC State or other similar schools vs. Harvard, Stanford or any of the other “supposedly premiere” colleges. In many cases is simply a waste of money. We can agree to disagree.</p>
<p>Of course, this debate was likely the original reason that the OP created this thread… to drive posts up via controversy.</p>
<p>Pentaprism, thank you for your post and for sharing your story. I had been planning to post something general about why kids who don’t have the LUXURY (in most cases) of attending selective four-year private universities with little or no financial contribution of their own often drop out of the colleges they do attend (or take longer to graduate).</p>
<p>It is no surprise you are doing very well.</p>
<p>How to quote:
[/quote]
text <a href=“remove%20space”> /quote</a> :)</p>
<p>
Mmmph. Preach!</p>
<p>Can’t get through a coconut with a plastic knife.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Learn the distinction between treatment effect and selection effect.</p>
<p>ucbalumnus- I understand the difference between the treatment effect and selection effect. In an earlier post, I think I said something about lower-tier schools doing a good job with the students they enroll. But, the experience your child gets at the lower tier school is diminished even though it may be due mostly to a selection effect.</p>
<p>Pentaprism-You make a very good point. I didn’t have adult students in mind when I made my remarks. I had full-time, traditional undergrads in mind. How do you explain THEIR graduation rate? How does low graduation rate affect the quality of the academic and social experience?</p>