<p>Consolation: I agree. I think students feel that “passion” equals laser-beam focus. And that’s not the case. Nor do I think (only my guess) that the adcoms are only searching for those kids.</p>
<p>If an otherwise extremely engaged and academically superb kid finds a new EC start of Senior year, I don’t think it’d be a disadvanatge. His/her recommenders will already note the underlying character of the applicant – which is more meaningful than some position attained to some club/event.</p>
<p>sure, you can go ahead and do lots of different things, just to try them out…but eventually, you will end up with a huge laundry list…how does that show commitment? and by the way, some people actually do things not to get awards, but because they genuinely like them…as for those who do pursue a specific ec or two to get awards, it’s their loss…but go with a laundry list, and I highly doubt that it will look good…</p>
<p>nobody said that you have to sacrifice fun for professionalism, but in many cases this is a requirement…you are not going to get into yale by having fun and enjoying yourself alone…that, we all know - admitted, deferred and rejected students have all worked immensely hard to prepare for their applications…so if you want to get into a university which - implicitly - stipulates that you show some maturity in the way you lead your everyday life, from extracurriculars, to internships and everything, you WILL have to make minor sacrifices(or major ones)…these are expected…nobody can deny that at this point…that is after all why the “favorite extracurricular” essay is all about…of course, when it comes to the debate of “passion versus status”, i’m all for passion! BUT from my personal experience - however limited that may be - when you are passionate, that usually gives you a boost…so if u are really into, say, Science Bowl and commit to it because you genuinely love it, you will succeed and most likely augment your status…passion shows and is usually rewarded…</p>
<p>however, if you want to enjoy yourself, do so, but bear in mind that it will not be a plus to have a laundry list of extracurriculars, which will be the result of a flaky and unorganized year…sure, you found a new club which you love in your senior year! join! why not after all? but if you are systematically “trying out” clubs from 14-18 then it’s no good…</p>
<p>My son and I were talking about this the other day. We certainly agree with Consolation on this matter. Schools that view debate_addict’s perspective in decision making are simply missing out on some incredible youths. As CC obviously attests, brainy kids are a dime a dozen. It’s character, generosity, and social awareness coupled with smarts that is extra-ordinary.</p>
<p>could you elaborate on that? and explain what my “view” is? because i never disagreed with Consolation completely…i just qualified what he said…</p>
<p>also, i think that most would generally agree that most elite schools follow that policy…and we are talking about college admissions here…not the best way to enjoy high school…admissions are a pain in the neck and even though most of us disagree with the admissions process, it is what it is…and if one wants to get into a stellar school, the safe way is the walked way…plus, nobody said that the two ways don’t converge…</p>
<p>it’s not an idealistic system of admission…i for one am lucky that i did experiment earlier on, and found what i loved most early…so i could coalesce passion and focus…but i do know cases of people who had to sacrifice passion for focus…one of them got into harvard and he found his true calling there! he had often said things to me like: “i have never felt truly happy in any of my ecs” and that was a bit disappointing, but now he has what he wanted (harvard) and he is more elated than ever…
it all depends on how things will come about eventually…but one should not expect that by being free to do whatever he wants without any scope would be fruitful and bring about college success instantly…that’s just not the way it works! i for one never heard sb on CC say: “wow! look at all the things you did! 30 extracurriculars in 2 years! u really have managed to enrich yourself with experimenting! (even though it sadly might be the case)”…no, they would most likely say: it shows you just did random things to get a big list of extracurriculars…the problem is interpretation…and i dont think any adcom would directly interpret the scenario of “many many ecs” in a positive light - unfortunately so…</p>
<p>however, if you can indeed show me a sample of a college - and we are talking about elite ones after all - which does so, i’d be more than glad to revise my opinion…</p>
<p>and one last thing to reiterate: the question at hand is “why didn’t my friend get into (yale/harvard/princeton/fill in the gap with an elite college”</p>
<p>I fully agree with debate_addict last three posts. College is something starting geting serious not only for fun.</p>
<p>The problem with debate<em>addict’s thinking is it necessitates living in a very regimentalized, dispassionate way (and from a very young age). There becomes this mentality that one must have a mix of “academics” and (frankly boring) “ECs” that ultimately look fairly cohesive on paper rather than pursuing a genuine life. Working hard to fit into some admissions committee’s perception of success obviously has its upsides–debate</em>addict got into Yale early but I was deferred. However, at some point, you need to really examine whether the benefit derived from pursuing this goal (4 years at Yale or some comparable institution) is worth it. By following the “straight and narrow” path to admissions, I fear that a lot of kids in my generation are missing out on less achievement-oriented aspects of life. When it comes to politics, for example, I can talk circles around my more admissions-focused friends because I prioritize being very aware of current events. Will this interest benefit me much on my application? Not in any quantitative way. Does feeling invested in current events give my life more meaning than trying to get into “School X” ever could? You bet.</p>
<p>inspirational, 887s. a breath of wider perspective in a really crazy time.</p>
<p>DONT GO THERE!</p>
<p>887s has been fairly insulting, and without having the tiniest grasp of what I am like. Also, it is fairly clear that you didn’t fully read my previous posts. You just assumed that “frankly boring ECs” is all I am advocating. Well, why don’t you try reading what I actually wrote? I’m all for passion - i just spoke against both extremes: the rigidity of dispassionate AS WELL AS the foolishness in doing whatever you want without any specification. And we are not discussing what is the best way to lead one’s life here!! We are discussing ways of college admission. As I have stated repeatedly, it’s not a good way, but it is what it is.</p>
<p>And if you think that I got into Yale based on all the things you stated, that shows just how ignorant you are. You are reiterating how I chose the “looking good on paper” way. Well, have you seen my application? Where u there during my interview? Did you write my essays? Do you even know me to judge me like that? I highly doubt it. Well, for your information, the reason why I think I got in was my passion about international relations, which I pursued extensively through MUNs, internships and mentorships. And next time, refrain from making assumptions about a person you hardly know. It’s very very offensive…</p>
<p>AND IF SOMEBODY IS GOING TO POST SOMETHING ABOUT ME SPECIFICALLY, PLEASE DO ME THE HONOR OF READING WHAT I ACTUALLY POSTED, OR DON’T MENTION MY NAME AT ALL.</p>
<p>Also, hypothetically, were I in your situation, I would have regretted being deferred and not doing things right - if that was the case. Why? Because I am an international - not coming from a very priviledged background, and yale is my big break - an opportunity for which i have struggled a great deal. If you think the process is painstaking for everyone, it’s double the pain for me, because of the additional costs one has to go through in Greece to have a shot at Yale. But to answer your question, NO. I do not advocate a structured and pre-defined high school life, nor a life where you can do whatever you want. I advocate a compromise: enjoy your high school life but don’t just do whatever you want. Find somethings that you love and stick to them.</p>
<p>ok, i’m going to ignore the side-arguement and say to the OP that your friend could not have been an anomoly, since he got rejected at multiple top schools. I don’t think he is “commonplace” either, as some have suggested. I think he is very qualified. I wonder if he came across as conceited in his essay or if recs said bad things about him</p>
<p>In my opinion, the sad truth is that not every deserving kid can get into their top choice. That’s it, bottom line. I think some people who are “dispassionate” and think only about doing the “right” ECs to please admissions officers do get accepted. But honestly I’ve never met someone who pursued a passion solely for college admission. If someone has the drive to pursue a specific interest (and I’m not talking join a club, like debate_addicts previously listed activites, for example), there must be some passion there. And if they truly enjoy that activity, why not pursue it?</p>
<p>Now, I can also say from experience that people who are well-rounded and willing to try new things get accepted as well. I know people who have tried many clubs, do not have any specific hook, and have gotten into the top schools. I don’t think admissions officers are always looking for someone who already knows what they want from life, so many people don’t!! Why do you think the undecided major exists…and I think HYPSM have that major too.</p>
<p>Finally, I think your friend didn’t get in just like hundreds of other perfectly qualified kids didn’t get in. Your friend didn’t do anything wrong, but there were so many applicants. I’m sure it came down to specific, and perhaps irrelevant, detials as a deciding factor for admission so what can you do? If your friend is as perfect as you have said, he/she will have no trouble being successful in life.</p>
<p>Debate_addict:</p>
<p>“wHere U there during my interview? Did you write my essays?”</p>
<p>Well, I hope that YOU didn’t write your essays! ;)</p>
<p>Just to clarify my previous comment, I meant to say and can no longer edit:</p>
<p>If someone has the drive to pursue a specific interest (and I’m not talking justjoin a club. I mean focusing on an interest, like debate_addicts previously listed activites, for example), there must be some passion there.</p>
<p>I really am sorry to have ****ed you off. I understand that a school like Yale is a big break for you–it’s really an incredible opportunity (for reasons completely unrelated to the name). I fear however that a philosophical difference lies at the heart of this misunderstanding. You said “And we are not discussing what is the best way to lead one’s life here!! We are discussing ways of college admission.” In my opinion, college admissions IS part of leading one’s life–going off to school is simply one of the many choices we make that define ourselves as individuals. I think the values we develop before, during, and after college determine future success/happiness much more than what sized envelope you get. I really hope you agree (and that’s all I’ll say on the matter for the forseeable future).</p>
<p>College addmission is a selecting process to build a class they need. Some good qualities such as passination and achievement definitly will help. To exploring the possible reason on the rejection of your friend, does not mean offending anyone. By my heard, I really think your friend should have great chance to get it. His rejection may due to the reasons debate<em>addicts sugguested or may due to his presentation of his profile. From the list of addmited and the list rejected. I do think that debate</em>addicts hit the bull eyes.</p>
<p>I agree with johnxwang and debate_addicts. Clarinet, tennis, volunteer at hospital, NHS. Those are all flashy things with no focus. My angry counselor called the Stanford admissions because I got rejected. Scores don’t matter too much. Once you are through the academic filter (basically judging whether you can handle the academic load) they look at how you are going to contribute to the community. I don’t know about Yale, but Stanford wants to see more of the 4 years in Tennis varsity, starting a tennis business, peer tutoring his fellow tennis players, USTA ranking, Tennis camps over summer, planning on player for Yale type of stuff than a breadth of things that are not going to matter at college. After learning this, I would have structured my application differently, maybe even leaving out a few EC that I did to make my other focused things look better.</p>
<p>Well, debate_addict, I think it is very unbecoming of someone who got in to their first choice school early to criticize someone who did not for caring too much about it. And that is precisely what you did.</p>
<p>I also would point out that some of us ARE in fact talking about what makes a foundation for a good life, and suggesting that leading it according to how to impress an adcom that is following the latest fashion in all this “crafting a class” BS may not ultimately be the best way. Nor, one might add, might it ultimately be the best way to select candidates for admission.</p>
<p>Maybe cause there’s no such thing as a “perfect friend.”</p>
<p>My personal opinon on this is that for one his application probably did look like a cliche and he has good stats but there are more qualified applicants that apply to Yale than there are spaced avavilable.</p>
<p>Things happen–junior year I was diagnosed with cancer. I was out of school for the second half of my junior year and I was a football recruit who was the team’s captain looking to continue my career at Yale. I have been taking chemo since Jan. 2006. Senior year (last year) I applied to Yale–but not as the athletic recruit that I had once been prized. I achieved excellent grades (despite undergoing chemo daily) taught myself to kick extra points for senior year, organized a Red Cross Blood Drive that saw donors give 150 units, spoke at the Harvard Model Congress & won a gavel award, captained the lacrosse team–and was wait listed by Yale after graduating fourth in my class. Things happen–sometimes life doesn’t always give you what you desire. I’m a freshman at Bucknell on an academic scholarship, still taking chemo until August, 2008–and I’m looking to make each day a better one. Don’t get down, don’t feel rejected–you’ll land on your feet some place–and things will work out. The beauty of life is knowing that no one ever achieves anything by themselves–you’re always helped by someone along the way. If the worst thing is having your perfect friend not get into Yale–then you’re going to have a great life. Things happen–some are unexplainable. I’m a Pre-Med major in Biology with the hope of becoming an orthopedic surgeon and I can tell you–don’t worry about the perfect application. Good things will happen to you–just don’t give up. Peace.</p>