<p>Sure bloodline makes a difference – it’s seen differently by the different branches. It’s interesting to me how Jewishness passes through the mother – but Cohen/Levi/Israel status passes through the father, so clearly there’s some recognition of paternal bloodlines.</p>
<p>My children and I are considered Reform by our Reform temple, but the Orthodox wouldn’t consider my kids Jewish – even though 3 of their 4 grandparents are halachically Jewish – because the one that “counts most,” my mother, isn’t. Ah well.</p>
<p>Me too! And every December, with the proverbial Happy Holidays / Merry Christmas thing, while I personally don’t take a lot of offense to MC because I figure most people saying it are well-meaning, I’m always like, “Huh? Wasn’t this settled years ago?” As far back as I can remember … businesses wished their employees HH instead of MC, people said HH to one another, because it was no secret that some people weren’t Christian … And every year, this comes up anew, and I have to wonder how backwards some of these people must be, if they’ve just recently discovered that not everyone celebrates Christmas.</p>
<p>On clannishness - when I quit work to go to grad school, my boss solemnly warned me to watch out for Jewish professors - that they would favor Jewish grad students and each other, in awarding opportunities and plum projects and in questions of departmental politics, at the expense of us non-Jews.</p>
<p>I was surprised because such a thing had never occurred to me. When I got to grad school I was on the lookout, especially since the professor I was assigned to was Jewish. But I never saw any such thing. In fact, if anything, I saw the opposite. It soon became apparent that the prof liked me better than the other grad student (who was Jewish). Not over any religious reasons, but because I worked harder and didn’t screw things up as much.</p>
<p>“Why are they ashamed? That like asians being ashamed of being…”</p>
<p>I don’t understand this either. Once when I was flying back from Europe I was seated among a group of American Jewish high school students who were returning from some sort of trip or pilgrimage to Israel. I overheard one of my seatmates tell her friend that the other girl was so lucky because her name wasn’t identifiable as Jewish whereas she herself was stuck with a stereotypically Jewish name. I thought how sad that she isn’t proud of her identity.</p>
You think comments determine how clannish someone is? That’s a pathetically idiotic argument.</p>
<p>I’d say actions say far more about the clannishness of a person. Someone who has seen what I’ve done/lived would hardly agree with your assessment.</p>
<p>Unlike many people on this forum, I can actually make a statistical argument about an aggregate groups and still understand that on an individual face-to-face basis it means a lot less.</p>
<p>edit: And anyway, my initial post is actually a more direct response to the idea that “sticking together” is even an admirable trait to begin with.</p>
Are you serious? It would literally be an utter joke if someone made a Anglo organization or the like. In fact, the Klan is just that (low IQ though). I highly doubt you’d be so accepting of a non-violent organization that supported the significant historical achievement of the British Isles (and the subsequent success of the seed countries). </p>
<p>In general, I think success should be championed and failure should be scorned. The success of Eastern European Jews in the global competitive marketplace should be an obvious example to all.</p>
<p>Well, at my son’s high school, there is a Korean Parents Association, bilingual advisory that is for those who are bilingual in Spanish and English and a couple of other parent groups for the Latino parents. Among the students, there is a Jewish Student Union, a Christian Club,Muslim-American Society Youth Group, the Gay-Straight Alliance, Chinese Club, Vietnamese Club, Thai Club, an Armenian Club, a Filipino-American Club, North African-Middle Eastern Club, a Korean group and more. I wouldn’t care if someone wanted to start a group that supported the significant historical achievement of the British Isles and I doubt the school would either. Our school is very diverse and the students get along quite well. It doesn’t seem to be hurting anyone that all these “clannish” groups exist. In fact, kids bring their friends to clubs who aren’t part of that ethnic group, etc. I imagine it’s enriching and eye-opening and breaks down barriers.</p>
<p>I’m not sure I understand what you are saying. If one parent is Jewish and the other is not, the child is half-Jewish and they have as much right to embrace the other half of their heritage as the Jewish half. To say they are completely Jewish is to dismiss the other part of their heritage and is hurtful to the non-Jewish parent. I don’t understand how bloodline makes no difference.</p>
<p>Wrong. Here is where technicality kicks in according to my local Synagogue Rabbi. If your mother is a Jew, you are 100% jew by blood. You are still 100% jewish EVEN if you completely renounce your faith. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if your mom is not jewish but your dad is, you will be jewish by choice assuming you are raised as a Jew. Thus you are still 100% jewish in the eyes of the Jewish God and the Synagogue Rabbi’s.</p>
<p>Just because you’re jewish doesnt mean you ignore your other heritages. Austrian jews enjoy their Kosher lifestyle along with their Conservative history. American Jews similarly enjoy their jewish customs and American cultural ideals.</p>
<p>Not all Catholics are against gay marriage. I have faith that eventually the church will be guided to what is true, but that often, it takes the church centuries to get there. Same thing with women priests. At least they admit that the earth revolves around the sun.</p>
<p>How about anti-Texanism? Some people are simply brutal towards Texans these days. (We’re sorry about W, we won’t do it again, and Rick Perry is an idiot.)</p>
<p>I just erased a long response- one that was sure to antagonize most people. Abstract the question, depersonalize it and you can come up with many reasons to “hate” a group. Exclusivity, jealousy, being taught to hate, political beliefs contrary to one’s own, too much power… Are we talking religion or ethnic group? If you can’t separate the two that is one reason an US/THEM attitude develops, which in turn can lead to hatred for the above reasons. Can I dislike Israel because of its current policies and still like Jews? If not, there’s one answer. How strongly do individuals identify with the group? How true are the stereotypes? Do they represent things that negatively impact me? Clan loyalties that supercede those of country have a negative impact. The other guy being a devil doesn’t make one a saint/angel- horrible treatment of a group doesn’t mean that group can do no wrong. Even though it is wrong to categorically hate because of a label it happens. Step outside of the label and examine the traits associated with the label for a better understanding of how not sharing those traits can lead to dislike. Substitute another group- ethnic, religious, nationality, whatever… Think of differences and similarities- those need to be evident to love/hate someone. Also, people tend to dislike a group they can’t join that also has being superior/chosen as a part of it- even if it is just a perception and not the reality.</p>
<p>I have found these past 5 pages of dialogue fascinating and very informative. I hope that we can continue to celebrate and cherish our own race/religion while at the same time continuing to respect and learn from each other. </p>
<p>A little story - I was in Denmark touring a Lutheran church and commented on how it resembled a Catholic church. The tour guide said that it was Catholic until the Reformation at which time the Catholic Bishops were given a choice by the King of Denmark. Option A) convert to Lutheranism and keep your job/church Option B) we kill you. I guess they chose life! To this day (unless it has changed in the last 5 years), any child born in Denmark or Sweden is born as a Lutheran.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Jews are joinable. Every movement of Judaism has a conversion-in process, with different levels of rigor. This is old news, not a recent change.</p></li>
<li><p>Chosen-ness is a concept that describes “chosen for extra responsibilities” not superiority. </p></li>
<li><p>If people dislike another group based on perceptions, not reality, then who needs to change?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>If your mother is Jewish, you are 100% Jewish, fullstop. Not by ‘blood’, unless by that you mean ‘by inheritance’.</p>
<p>If your mother is not Jewish you are NOT JEWISH. 0%. Even if your father is Jewish, and no matter how you are raised. The only way for you to become Jewish would be by conversion, following the same procedure for anyone no matter their birth. Although in practice the conversion may be a bit easier for you.</p>
<p>The other issue about renouncing your faith is not so simple either, but enough for now.</p>
<p>The technical explanations provided by KosherZ (which I believe applies to Reform Jews) and Sorghum (which I believe applies to most other branches of Judiasm) are correct. </p>
<p>However, the term “half-Jewish” is often used anyway. It simply means “this person has one parent who is Jewish and one who is not.” The term is widely accepted even though it is technically incorrect because it provides useful information and because it is similar to the way in which other people whose parents are of different heritages are described. If my daughter’s roommate describes herself as “half-Hispanic,” or our neighbors’ daughter describes herself as “half-Asian,” nobody makes a fuss, and everyone knows what the descriptions mean. The term “half-Jewish” is similarly useful.</p>
<p>I am not Jewish. My husband is. Our son and daughter were not raised in the Jewish faith. Thus, they are not Jewish in the eyes of all groups of Jews, both Reform and otherwise. They know this. Nevertheless, they sometimes refer to themselves as half-Jewish, probably because it’s simpler than giving a long explanation about which parent is of which heritage. The three people who live in my daughter’s off-campus apartment even refer to the population of their apartment as being half-Jewish because the people who live there are one Jew, one non-Jew, and my daughter. It’s a joke, and I believe my daughter was the one who initiated it. </p>
<p>A couple of points:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>My kids don’t have to acknowledge the Jewish part of their heritage. They don’t look Jewish, and their last name is ambiguous. They’re making a choice.</p></li>
<li><p>My kids are plenty Jewish enough that if they had lived in Nazi Germany, they would have died for it.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Given the above, it’s a little bit offensive to criticize them – or anyone else of a similar heritage – for referring to themselves as half-Jewish, even though the term is technically incorrect.</p>
<p>Daughters/Sons of the American Revolution???</p>
<p>As for who is Jewish, Reform Jews recognize the children of a Jewish father/non-Jewish mother. Conservative/Orthodox Jews only recognize the children of a Jewish mother. But, I think, at least with Conservative Jews, many children of Jewish fathers/non-Jewish mothers are raised as Jews without it becoming an issue.</p>
<p>But . . . if you listen to some of the Rabbis in Israel who consider themselves the sole “deciders” of all things Jewish, many American Jews (like me) are not Jewish because they do not recognize Reform or Conservative Jews. About 10 years ago they made a number of pronouncements on this which created a huge fuss here (several Jewish organizations withheld funds to Israel and most publicly, Billy Crystal, while hosting the Oscars that year, made a number of jokes how he and many in the audience, could now eat bacon and lobster because he’s no longer Jewish.)</p>
<p>Eh, I can see this, as someone who grew up with a very stereotypical Jewish last name. </p>
<p>My mother (who married into this name) always was very sensitive if she had to complain about customer service or something like that, because she didn’t want to be stereotyped as the “pushy Jew.” It can be a real concern.</p>
<p>Not according to Reform, and the majority of Jews in this country are Reform. You’re going to have to trust me on this one, that it is absolutely no problem for me to be considered as a Jew, and no problem for my children to be considered Jewish even though one of their four grandparents (my mother) isn’t. Too bad if other strains of Judaism don’t see it that way. It’s irrelevant to me and mine until or unless one of my children wants to marry one of them. Then they’ll deal with it.</p>