“I pretty much never see this kind of thing in the Stanford forum, where people know their school is good and don’t feel the need to go around telling everyone that’s the case.”
ahem.
@simba9 - Stanford “arrived” a looooooooooooong time ago.
I sort of hate USC. I have 1 child there, and I have to admit being shocked at their money-grubbing ways. I’m full pay, except for small merit aid. And since day 1 I’ve been getting begging letters, seeing extra charges for language classes??? and fees to apply for housing (which she didn’t get). Why would I donate to fundraising? Isn’t that for her to do once she graduates? Isn’t my close to full pay enough?
Plus USC really doesn’t display costs accurately. When we did pre-matriculation tours, they showed the Village: “By the time your children are juniors, this complex will be completed and they can live here!” Well, the Village was completed, and they promptly moved freshmen in. So the calculations of maybe 3 yrs in dorms, one year off-campus went out the window. I really feel conned by that 
My second child is NOT attending, though admitted.
Having stalked CC for many years, as my many children went through the admissions process (just about over), I can explain the dislike, I think. Many frequent CC posters have a standard set of preferences and default advice. Old over new, cheap over expensive, and are quite vehement about their views. So, Harvard and MIT and the IVY league are the gold standard and any changes that threaten that hierarchy draws quite a negative response. Also, these frequent posters reflexively state that all schools are roughly the same so any additional money spent or borrowed is a bad idea. So, when USC rises up it threatens the hierarchy and draws a negative response from some subset of posters. Also, college costs scare people and USC is expensive (although its merit scholarships are great) and that also draws a strong response. I believe, based on our area experience far from California, that USC has vastly transformed. I know a number of top students who freely turned down more traditional choices to go to USC and have loved the experience. And, it is worth saying, that an entire other group of frequent CC posters have it exactly right, todays students have many wonderful choices. Just as the volume of students applying to a few universities as gone up, so have many other universities transformed so that they can offer today what only a few universities offered thirty years ago. USC is one of those.
@Iwonderwhere, agree that USC did not necessarily display costs clearly. For example, when S received his early admission in January, the brochure in the red folder/white box listed approximate housing costs but left out that the numbers were for ONE semester. Also, I don’t want to sound like a broken record, although I probably do, but estimating $500 for transportation is rather unrealistic for an OOS student. Move in week alone would cost thousands of dollars, not to mention Parent’s weekend. What about Thanksgiving, Xmas, Spring break? I realize students do not HAVE TO return home for all of the breaks. Also, USC added some mandatory fees of over $1,000 as compared with last year. So instead of $72k that we roughly estimated for year one (based on last year), the estimated COA that USC sent us in March was $75,600 and that was with $500 transportation, lowest dining plan, and lowest housing option. So S would not at more than $75,000 be living with the other Presidential Scholars in the McCarthy Honors building.That being said, we were grateful for the generous half tuition merit award. I can honestly say I have no ill feelings towards USC. I think it’s a great school, but just not “worth” what they are charging to our family at this time. I can see how you might be annoyed with all the extra fees and pleas for donations. What other schools is your second child considering?
No school displays every single cost clearly, you learn that as you go. Stanford puts travel cost as “Varies” in their COA, so they don’t even include it in their cost estimate. It seems strange to ding a school over and over and over again for putting what is an obvious estimate. Any school expects people to do some basic math on their own. According to the Cornell site "Costs to attend Cornell for the 2018-19 academic school year (excluding travel allowances) are estimated below…they don’t include it either. Harvard puts it at 0-$5,000, they seem to cover all the bases with that one. But we didn’t go visit the east coast school three times a year, goodness, it isn’t grade school anymore. Regardless, if a person wants to do that, cost is on them. Apparently no school is factoring that into their COA.
Any school expects a parent to use some common sense in determining their own costs. They don’t include the cost of a laptop, but if little junior needs one, guess what? That will be a cost too, but it’s not specifically on the list. And some will think they need the Macbook Pro instead of the regular Macbook - individual choice to spend more than the minimum. Prices rise every year at every school. Obviously the $500 travel estimate is not the big problem here.
It is good to understand that there are always hidden costs when a kid goes to college - eating out, joining clubs, clothes for special events, extra transportation costs to go places, tickets for events, etc. Having said that, one will find that COA at USC and many schools is way closer to 80k than 75k nowadays. But there are certainly ways to trim that too. Individual choices.
Interesting, we never got anything asking for donations until after student graduated from any of our privates schools. I totally agree the housing at USC is not fun to work with after freshman year. The Village is for sophomores (except for one building - McCarthy) and isn’t aiding juniors that’s for sure. Many want to go off campus anyway at that point, but that is challenging as well.
I have actually noticed a much stronger regard for USC in this forum in recent years aside from the usual banter from UCLA types.
It’s not “grade school” when a family is tight knit/close and would like to spend Thanksgiving and Xmas holidays together as a family. Harvard has it right if they provide a range of up to $5,000 for travel, as opposed to USC that calculates $500 for transportation (out of estimated $76,000 COA that is already lower than actual costs to attend USC), which is ridiculously low given they pride themselves on matriculating students from all fifty states. $500 allotted for OOS annual transportation IS likely a problem for most middle class to upper middle class families that would like a more accurate estimate of the real COA before making a decision.Yes, basic math reveals that $80,000 is the actual cost of attending USC the first year. Basic math also informs our son that $300,000 invested over the next 20 years, conservatively doubling every nine years should put away over a million dollars by his 40th birthday.
^^^In my mind, “transportation” (gas in the car, taxi/Uber fare while in and around campus) has a different meaning than “travel” (making a trip of some length, such as going home for the holidays). Prudent students and parents would make a budget of all college costs and review them for accuracy/reality. .
I agree with @socaldad2002 I assumed transportation in USC’s COA (or other schools for that matter) was for shuttles, Ubers, or bus/trains for adventures, etc. I remember one of my freshman needing all three of those to get to Disneyland his first weekend in LA! Him and a group of new friends wanted to figure out how to get there. They still ended up walking quite a ways.
I never assumed colleges to include travel costs to and from the school, as that would be too diverse with so many kids from around the world. (I did look up Harvard to and their COA is stated at 72-77K because of that travel figure but many schools don’t include it, how could they?) It can be assumed most do go home for Thanksgiving and certainly Christmas, although we host USC kids every turkey day because cross country or international flights aren’t that practical when they are coming home just about two weeks later. With an athlete we are there often, I know every exit and cow on I-5 well, the Southwest flight schedule, and even have a “guy” at Enterprise in LA, but those are costs others wouldn’t have. The choices or need of travel of all types should factored that into a person’s individual college costs. There are surprise expenses everywhere, and managing them is an individual thing.
My friends and I found the COA at all of our student’s schools to be much more than stated, but we joke that it is most likely due to the invention of Amazon Prime. I just saw a fancy dress and hat purchased on the account for some fun event this weekend. Oh those college days. 
Another year of classes is complete. Congrats freshman parents, just finals to go!
Ran out of edit time above…
Re the OP, I am not sensitive to any disparaging comments re USC, every school gets them and no school is perfect. What is hard about cc, is that people only really know the world they are in and many only go through this process one or two times, not enough to gather a world of opinions about many different schools. So take it for what it is worth, it is just a collection of opinions, many times based on judgement versus actual experiences or fact, since no one can experience everything at every school, or even one school. Opinions are often based on one little slice of experience that poster had (and often times it is parent view which differs from student view). But we all throw them out there, hopefully with good intentions, and it is what keeps cc going. I certainly don’t expect them to all be positive for any school, but I think USC’s reputation is exponentially better than it use to be, here and everywhere.
I realise there will be a fudge factor in all college costs, and I allocate extra funds for the unexpected but it is frustrating to see “normal” costs tacked on. A bit like seeing a 65 dollar oil change and rotation special, but when you get done, it is at 100 dollars for assorted mandatory fees which they must know in advance, since they run the place. Don’t the majority of kids take a language? A tuition of 54k doesn’t cover languge lab or whatever they called it? It is just the nickel and diming. FWIW, a coworker had a similar issue with CMU, but off campus housing there was far more reasonable…
“Don’t the majority of kids take a language?”
Not if they are NOT enrolled in the college of Letters and Science, OR earn a high enough score an AP/ IB test OR on the FL placement tests…
“What is the Foreign Language requirement for the USC Dana and David Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences?The foreign language requirement may be satisfied in one of the following ways: 1) Earning a passing grade in Course III of a foreign language sequence at USC or its equivalent elsewhere; or 2) Scoring on the placement examination at a level considered by the language program as equivalent to the completion of Course III; or 3) Scoring on a national or statewide examination (i.e. AP/IB)at a level set by the department and approved by the College of Letters, Arts & Sciences; or 4) If you are fluent in a language other than those used to meet the language requirement at USC, passing a competency exam of advanced language skills, administered at USC, subject to the availability of suitable academic examiners. The competency exam will test proficiency in speaking, reading and writing skills.”
@CADREAMIN, thanks for your input on this thread, and again for all your efforts on the USC transfer thread as well.
@everyone who mentioned USC hopefully earning our (rightful! lol) place on CC’s top universities list: The list will be updated soon. No, not a huge deal, but I like CC and would be happy if USC made the list. It’s based on popularity and I see many, many USC threads on the board daily. We shall see…
While certain CC posters & even CC moderators have suggested that the list of “CC Top Universities” is merely based on activity or popularity in terms of the forums on CC, that is clearly not accurate. Combined, those 20 “Top Universities” have amassed 1.8M Replies to their 189K threads since CC’s inception in 2001. That’s an average of 9 replies per thread.
The single USC Class of 2022 thread alone has 1.2M views and 5600 replies. The current USC Transfer thread has another 315K views and 3700 replies. And there are over 6000 threads on the USC CC page. They just added Tulane and supposedly based on popularity or the activity of their threads. Its Class of 2022 thread has only 1700 replies (less than 1/3rd the size of USC’s). Those 20 universities do not all outpace USC in terms of activity among CC posters.
And clearly, CC’s Top Universities are by and large ranked high elsewhere. That is not just a coincidence tied to their perceived popularity on CC or activity among CC posters. USC is ranked 21st on US News College Rankings and 19th on Niche and 15th on Wall St Journal’s. Just using US News Rankings, as they are the most often quoted, USC outranks 5 of the 20 CC Top Universities and is tied with 3 of them. Tulane, at 40th, Michigan, at 28th, and UNC, at 30th, are the only 3 not in the US News Top-25 in terms of rankings.
And CC goes further… listing the Ivy League colleges separately and listing CC’s Top Liberal Arts Colleges. They thus go out of their way to differentiate 58 colleges and universities (Ivy +Top Universities + Top Liberal Arts Colleges)… and still USC, at 21, is not worthy.
My older daughter graduates USC on Friday. Here’s hoping that CC manages to update this list by the time my younger daughter graduates from USC in 2021
Ah, the USC-hate continues on cc:
and
(pls forgive my sarcasm on my last post–I can only take so many “USC loves full-pay applicants!” and “USC rejects high stat kids bc USC just cannot believe any high stat kid would actually love to attend USC” posts…)
Posts like that are always entertaining to read. There’s a critical mass of people out there who just don’t get it - that college admissions in the U.S. is not exclusively about numbers. As USC’s president has said on numerous occasions, they’re not looking for students, they’re looking for Trojans. Note the difference. When I was growing up, my parents always told us that Harvard doesn’t necessarily want the valedictorian, they want the captain of the football team. That means all the difference in the world, and the further I get into my career, the more I understand how success is only partly dependent on talent or raw brainpower.
@USCWolverine I think you have to let it go. If you do some research, often times some of the most vocal against USC are those who had students that were not admitted (easy to identify in posting history - says it all) or can’t afford it or don’t get the aid they want, etc. Then they spend the next 6 months spewing hate about the school and belittling others that got in until they get over their pain. It happens, with every school frankly. It’s great until their student is not admitted. It’s the internet - full of angry people. Can’t take it personally. USC is THE destination for many many students that are truly passionate about it with great stats. Frankly, it is also why I don’t reply to USC or XYZ school threads. If a kid has had some experience with both schools but is still wondering what to do, they should move on. USC is a school of passion, and if they don’t have it, they don’t have it. USC students love their school, it would be a hard place to attend if one is lukewarm about it. What people don’t understand is that if a high stat kid lacks this passion, it often shows on their apps. That is the issue. But in their mind it is easier to reconcile by saying the school must be bad. Since USC rejects over 3000 students with 99 percentile scores, saying anything negative about the students themselves is just silly. For years they have said they could fill the class with all 4.0s, but thank goodness they don’t take only 4.0+/36/1600 kids - now that would be a dull student body. No school should.
It’s Socal and it’s a fabulous school that has grown into an elite and selective university with a 13% admission rate - people just love to hate other’s success. And people love to hate California, sign of the times. Take the stabs as a compliment or just a defense mechanism that others need to deal with rejection. Then it won’t bother you so much.
I’ll admit I didn’t read every post on this thread. Here’s my impression. USC does a lot of things well: they’ve been committed to diversity for a long time, have many excellent academic programs, and seem committed to improving over the long haul to compete with Stanford, the Ivies, etc. They have well-regarded professional programs and I know a couple of UCLA/Berkeley grads who have gone to USC for master’s programs because it fit their needs. On the other hand, with USC, it’s all about the money. Of course, this is pretty much true with Harvard, Stanford, etc. but those schools have figured out how to project an image that isn’t as overt as that of USC. I’ve probably seen hundreds of USC license plate frames in my lifetime, and the cheapest car to wear one was maybe a BMW 325. The graduates, as well as the university itself, seem to be preoccupied with money and status. I’ll admit this is a stereotype, but events such as the attempted USC takeover of The Scripps Research Institute, some high-profile poachings of professors from UCSD and other universities, seems consistent with this. Lastly, although I know USC is far from unique in this regard, it seems there is always an ethics scandal involving USC in the news–from NCAA suspensions, other scandals involving the athletic programs, ethics violations at the medical school, etc. Whether it’s really worse there than at other schools with big athletic programs and a wealthy alumni/donor base, I don’t know.
@rocket88 . Too bad you won’t have a chance to see my 2006 Volvo (the cheap one, S40) with my H’s USC alum frame then.
I think one criticism is that USC’s ranking is now higher than its academic rep would suggest, as is the case with Northeastern. This is the root of the “gaming” allegations: you don’t have a bunch of top-10 programs, and your academic rep isn’t equal to those near you in the rankings, so you must be gaming them.
USC’s admit rate might be dropping due to popularity, but students don’t teach or (typically) find research breakthroughs, and until their academic rep catches up to those of their aspirational peers, some won’t respect the academic strength and will accuse them of gaming.
I think academic strength is incredibly important, but it’s not the be-all/end-all of a school’s worth. USC is doing some things right, according to the USNews formula. It certainly sounds like, based on discussions here, there are some features that make USC an attractive destination.
@blueskies2day, thank you for the thoughtful and articulate post.
@presbuckley, could you have made your USC-hate perhaps slightly less obvious? Thanks and FIGHT ON! :)>-