I have to ask. People are quick to tell the “rich” to move if they complain about cost of living … does that make it ok to tell the “poor” to move for better opportunities?
I agree, to a certain extent we choose where we live, but honestly it is not a practical idea to move to a completely different region of the country - jobs, children, extended family, etc.
We chose where we live. It’s 8 hours away from where my family lives and I grew up and 4/7 hours away from H’s family/where he grew up.
No regrets at all.
Yes, when I’m at school teaching high schoolers and the conversation gets to such issues in life, I definitely give them info on COL vs jobs and income. We almost fell into the trap ourselves of thinking a higher salary was better when looking at where we wanted to settle fresh out of college. Fortunately, I started running through our budget and put the brakes on before H could take a job that would have meant we’d struggle financially. Salaries in HCOL areas are higher, but not always higher “enough” to make up for the COL.
We’ve lived in two other states since then - all picked by us and none near family or where we grew up - then settled here because we searched all over our desirable areas of the US and liked this one best. COL and low traffic, but decent access to places were high on our list (along with climate and terrain, etc).
I see nothing wrong with doing that. It makes great logical sense. Choose what works for you.
There are issues with caring for our parents now, but only because they didn’t care to move with/near us. We all get to make our own decisions. We’ve raised our lads with the knowledge that they can pretty much pick anywhere in the world they want to live if the job and conditions suit them - though it’s possible we’ll follow them. 
Speaking as someone who’s a little older and will soon be looking at it from the parent’s point of view, I can see the reluctance to move. One of our kids lives in a place with winters much worse than those where we live now, and the other lives in one of the most expensive areas of the country. And there’s no guarantee that either of them will be in the same place in five or ten or fifteen years.
My husband is retiring at the end of this year. I will retire in another three or four years. It would make a lot of sense for us to consider a move after my retirement. But moving to be near either of our kids might mean getting stuck in a place that we don’t like and where our child no longer lives – and perhaps this might happen at an age when we would be reluctant to move again. Even worse, our presence might inhibit our child and his/her partner from making further geographic moves that would make sense for their own lives and careers.
It’s complicated.
I don’t blame my mom or in-laws. I’m ok with them making the choices they did and understand their not wanting to leave the places they love. It does make it tougher now when they need help though - and for working through my dad’s estate. It’s not impossible.
There’s still no way I’d rather live in either of their locations myself. I moved FROM my mom’s location due to both weather and economic opportunities. There have been 30+ years of enjoyment in our location(s) vs feeling I must stay there due to worrying about the end of their lives.
In short, there’s nothing wrong with picking a location to live based upon factors that are important to the individual (or couple). Money and COL is just one of those factors to consider. Where they opt for may or may not be where they grew up. Change is optional.
“Yes, when I’m at school teaching high schoolers and the conversation gets to such issues in life, I definitely give them info on COL vs jobs and income.”
I’ve had many similar talks with my own young adult children.
“People are quick to tell the “rich” to move if they complain about cost of living … does that make it ok to tell the “poor” to move for better opportunities?”
A big difference is one group has the resources to move while the other lacks them making it much more difficult. However, I do see many references to poorer people relocating. We’ve had periods of history where there’s been big exoduses from one area to another in search of work and better opportunities, both globally and within the United States. Still happens today.
So now we arguing about what “self made” is?
Ok. I come from a solidly lower middle class background. Stepdad was a helicopter test pilot, supporting a family of 7. I always had a roof over my head and food to eat. Got modest presents at Christmas, no help buying a car, always got the “off brand” of everything, was happy and never felt deprived. In high school I was given 3 or 4 new outfits every school year and expected to get a job and provide the rest. My parents gave me a small monthly allowance in college that paid for extras, but I had to pay tuition and board myself. Those were the days where you could actually work and pay for college, so I always had a job and just barely managed to do it. It never even occurred to me to apply for FA, though I might have qualified for at least some. I was one of the first in my family to graduate from college, so we just didn’t know about stuff like that, I guess. My mom got her degree while I was in college. I did get a modest merit scholarship after my freshman year from my stepdad’s parent company, which helped me avoid that gut wrenching fear every semester that I wouldn’t have enough to pay for my dorm. I felt “rich” because I was able to go away to college.
DH came from a very similar background, but his mom was single mom of 2 after he turned 8 and received no child support and her ex never paid her his court ordered divorce settlement (long story). She was a high school counselor during his upbringing. He also put himself through college.
I worked as a teacher and we lived on my meager salary alone as DH’s industry experienced a big bust, so he made literally $0 for the first three years of our marriage.I think my salary at that time was about 17K. After that, things turned in his industry, he was very very good at his profession, and within a decade, we were probably in the 1%.
So now I’m no longer able to say we were self made because we didn’t grow up homeless?
Interesting article I just saw that might add some perspective to the regional aspect of this:
Cutting and pasting from the article: "Here are the top 10 cities where you need to earn the most to afford a median-priced house:
San Jose – $274,623.19
San Francisco – $213,726.86
San Diego – $130,986.05
Los Angeles – $114,907.52
Boston – $109,411.27
Seattle – $109,274.91
New York City – $103,235.16
Washington, D.C. – $96,144.49
Denver – $93,263.28
Portland – $85,369.09"
BTW, a ‘median-priced house’ in San Jose or San Francisco is not very fancy or especially large. That is probably true for those other cities as well.
I am not trying to say that earning $300K in the Bay Area is not comfortable, privileged, upper middle class, etc. (And on a personal note we are fortunate to be in a very good position financially now and I am thankful for it). But for a lot of people, being able to buy what used to be considered a starter home makes them feel fortunate to own property but doesn’t make them feel truly ‘rich’. And I guess that sort of gets back to the whole back-and-forth of this thread… what exactly does it mean to be rich?
That list is a bunch of bull. A salary of (Seattle – $109,274.91) will NOT buy a median priced house in the city. Not unless one puts up a 50% downplayment, because a median priced house in the city is close to $750k. Maybe they are counting very distant suburbs… Also, the sales below median are all either dilapidated shacks (value is in the land) or condos with up to 2 bedrooms. I live here and I read the local paper, and I shopped for a house recently… 
A similar article that divides down further to zip codes is at https://www.businessinsider.com/salary-afford-most-expensive-zip-codes-2017-6#8-94301-palo-alto-california-18 . For both of the listed Palo Alto zip codes, they report median home prices above $2 million. They estimate required salaries of $408k and $538k for an 80% mortgage with 25% of pre-tax income going to mortgage. Atherton was among the highest with an estimated required salary of $1 million. This partially relates to Atherton having nicer homes than a lot of other areas. The Atherton median price per sqft was ~$1700, so the referenced median sales price would likely get a slightly over 3000 sqft home. Of course one doesn’t have to live in Palo Alto or Atherton. All of the Bay Area has high home prices, but many areas are significantly less elevated than these communities.
And commute from those areas to Palo Alto is at least an hour one way. Mr. B works in that area, so he occasionally gets to drive around. Another anecdote: we have good friends who just went through the ordeal of buying a house within commuting distance to Google and ended up buying a modestly priced 2 bedroom condo in Fremont area for $700k.
Regarding self made:
I my world view we are all interconnected. Yes there is a lot of hard work that goes into being successful but we cannot discount that we have for the most part adequate public schools with no additional fees, state citizens that used to fund the public universities so that it was achievable for a student to work their way through college, food support for school lunches, etc.
As I said before my husband did not happen in a vacuum. There were tax supported public schools, a man in the neighborhood who made summer enrichment opportunities happen, scholarship to a top high school, financial aid from the university. My husband worked his butt off but all along the way their was the societal support. And we are so grateful for that and try to pass it forward.
A home and property are concrete assets. You know what New Yorkers who have high incomes and expensive homes do when they retire? They sell the houses for a tidy profit, buy homes for a fraction of the cost somewhere warm, and pocket the difference. Sure, home prices are high in some areas, but it’s not like that money is lost to the home buyer forever.
Where do all the low income families live in these places that require a half million dollar income to buy a home? Surely even Seattle and San Francisco have department stores and a Starbucks or two. Where do their employees live?
Serious question–if it takes 700K to buy a condo in a section of CA, where are the really moderate people living? Someone is constructing those condos. Someone is staffing the stores and businesses in the area. Someone is starting out as a teacher, social worker, medical assistant, vet tech, low or mid level administrator. Someone is cutting the lawns, staffing the day care centers, delivering the mail, stocking shelves, etc etc. IN that area. Where are they all living? Are they all driving several hours to get there? It doesn’t seem possible.
“Where do all the low income families live in these places that require a half million dollar income to buy a home? Surely even Seattle and San Francisco have department stores and a Starbucks or two. Where do their employees live?”
Both of these cities have this exact problem. In SF, firefighters, policeman, teachers, retail employees can’t buy real estate within an hour of the city limits. Rents are high as well. In SF, they are trying to build some lower income housing in previously undesirable areas, and many young professionals are living many to an apt/house and/or in rooming type houses (with shared facilities eg. bathrooms/kitchens) that are becoming increasingly popular. That doesn’t work when you want to raise a family though.
" Are they all driving several hours to get there? It doesn’t seem possible."
Many, many are. Or taking the bus/train. Some of Mr. B’s coworkers/folks we know live south of Silicon Valley, in places like Morgan Hill… takes about an hour on a normal traffic day to get to work. But that area is definitely more affordable.
Younger folks rent with roommates, just like our kid does in Seattle. Her $1000 a month basement room in a 3-bedroom townhome is a bargain. The place is nice and on a bus line that goes directly to her workplace (20 min). Many places renting for that little are real dumps.
But that’s irrelevant to the topic of the thread. Back to the “why 1% don’t feel rich.”
“Are they all driving several hours to get there? It doesn’t seem possible.”
Or they bought their house decades ago (or inherited it or live with parents). Prop 13 makes it better to stay given your property tax is so low and can be inherited along with the house (which is a big factor in pushing up prices for newcomers).
My Uber driver the other week lives in Palo Alto and was in his 50s. Uber is his main (only?) source of income. I was shocked. But he told me he inherited his house from his parents who presumably bought it for $10K in the 1960s.
“Serious question–if it takes 700K to buy a condo in a section of CA, where are the really moderate people living? Someone is constructing those condos. Someone is staffing the stores and businesses in the area. Someone is starting out as a teacher, social worker, medical assistant, vet tech, low or mid level administrator. Someone is cutting the lawns, staffing the day care centers, delivering the mail, stocking shelves, etc etc. IN that area. Where are they all living? Are they all driving several hours to get there? It doesn’t seem possible.”
Commuting from the East Bay (traffic has increased a lot since I’ve lived here); renting smaller apartments than what is really comfortable for the size of their family (e.g., two nuclear families sharing a 2 br apt); also, a lot of my friends who have lower-pay careers are married to someone who works in tech or biotech. Like the couple where one is a baker and one works at Oracle, for instance. Or one works for a non-profit and the other is a corporate lawyer.
“My Uber driver the other week lives in Palo Alto and was in his 50s. Uber is his main (only?) source of income. I was shocked. But he told me he inherited his house from his parents who presumably bought it for $10K in the 1960s.”
This is what I don’t get. Sure, he might have family reasons why he can’t leave the area. But, for many, just sell and live elsewhere. I can’t fathom why anyone would live in Palo Alto at those costs unless you were in a very highly paid tech job (and there are tech jobs elsewhere). Is Palo Alto really that special of a place to live?
For one thing, my industry is clustered in just a few areas of the country; there are many reasons for this, and discussion of these reasons is not that relevant here. So we can’t just randomly move to any city in the country and expect to be employable. I suppose we should have chosen a different college major back then, but if all of us did, who would come up with new cancer therapeutics, novel diagnostic tools, etc.?
“I can’t fathom why anyone would live in Palo Alto at those costs”
But if your house is paid for and the property taxes are only $400 per year, and you don’t have kids, it can be quite cheap to live there, compared to what you can earn driving an Uber. And you are making a huge capital gain of hundreds of thousands of dollars every year (for the moment) as your house price goes up.