I think this statement speaks volumes. That IS very expensive for a top or a pair of pants. I’m not suggesting that there is anything wrong with spending it, but believing that it isn’t very expensive indicates a real disconnect with the way most people think and live.
@gallentjill The comment was that the poster buys “moderately expensive” clothes. Sorry, but that price range is exactly what what was said. That is by no means “very expensive” - relativity rears it’s ugly head again.
Or another way looking may be everyone thinks what they do is the norm or average. $75 is norm for someone in that wealth bracket. That makes everyone average:)
I’m with gallentjill–yes it’s relative. That’s the whole point. Those would be very expensive for me, too. But if you’re a 1 %er, you wouldn’t think so. Because you HAVE MORE MONEY THAN 99% of the country. Pretty sure that makes you rich.
@RandyErika This is a thread about perception. We are dissecting the concept that someone making 300k doesn’t feel rich. If one thinks that a $100 top is only moderately expensive, then they view their income and savings in that light. It makes sense that they don’t think they have a lot of money, because they feel that clothes in that range are ordinary expenses that they should be able to cover.
Many people would view that as very expensive – an extravegence to be indulged in only for a very special occasion or for a very rare treat. Many others would view it as absurd to ever spend that much money on a top. If you don’t view that as an ordinary expense, you don’t need the income to routinely cover it. Anyone who has the income to routinely cover those purchases seems “rich” becuase they are routinely buying what many people see as unecessary luxeries.
Again, this is not about objective numbers. It wouldn’t make a difference if you or I posted data showing the average price for a pair of pants. Its about perception.
The Pew calculator says that for the NYC area we were middle income when we had two kids at home, but upper income now that they are out of the house. That feels about right. I’ve always thought of myself as upper middle class.
As an architect, I am very aware that people who say you have to make over $200,000 to live in this area is bogus. I work a lot with immigrants who live less than two miles away from me. They work like crazy, scrimp by using dining rooms as bedrooms and some of them get to a point where they own the houses and live off the rents.
To try to dispel tension on clothing pricing, I will put out there that many professionals making well under $300K per year see their clothing as an investment. For right or wrong, people in professional jobs (really everyone) are judged by how they look, and sometimes directly by the quality and/or look of their clothing. I have worked in corporations for 30 years as a hiring manager and people are expected to dress the part, even employees who are not customer facing. Lower quality and/or inexpensive clothing/accessories is noticed, period, and that can have negative consequences.
When looking to hire or promote someone, it is common in my experience that someone in the decision making group mentions a candidate’s or employee’s clothing quality/style. I have heard quotes such as “we are not hiring the one in the brown suit, are we?” and “we can’t promote her, she always looks frumpy”, just to highlight a few quips. Again, it’s not right IMO, but it is reality.
In no way did I suggest that 300k isn’t a lot of money, I’m just saying it doesn’t make you rich especially if you start earning that type of money late in life. In our case we, we do okay from an income standpoint but right when started making good money, we had to send 3 kids to college. We got married in college and had two of our kids while hibby was in grad school so we basically didn’t have a lot a great deal of our marriage. There was no extra money to put aside for 529s and such. Neither of us come from a family of college grads so we had a ton of loans to pay off as well. I’m not complaining because we are secure currently but we definitely don’t have enough saved for retirement. As I said I would’ve preferred for my company to keep some profit sharing and let me opt into the health plan even if at a higher rate. I shudder to think about our healthcare costs between 60-65. God willing my husband will still be working and fortunately he is in a field where age discrimination really doesn’t happen to males. He can work for a very long time.
I’m late to the conversation but I agree that family background and early circumstances play into personal perception of wealth.
There is a big difference in mentality, at least in my mind, to families that have worked their tails off to acquire their wealth and those that have inherited it from their parents.
And for those of us who have been through job layoffs, lost the value of our homes during the real estate crash, the sense of security that “should” come with a current higher salary, just might not be there.
Whoever that earns > 200,000$ and say something like “What? My mom won’t buy me Samsung Galaxy S8 with 1000 GB RAM, Xbox 360, Tablet, whole food groceries and a plane ticket to fancy hotel in France? My life is ruined!” is incredibly oblivious to their privileges, whether they are really rich or not.
That being said, I used to be upper class when I lived in Korea. I never complained about not being able to afford something, but I also thought it was normal for families to have at least one dinner outside and have nice end of year vacation at a 5 star hotel in Pusan. Yes, privileges can make you blind, and many will be in denial when pointed out.
@Mwfan1921 said “When looking to hire or promote someone, it is common in my experience that someone in the decision making group mentions a candidate’s or employee’s clothing quality/style. I have heard quotes such as “we are not hiring the one in the brown suit, are we?” and “we can’t promote her, she always looks frumpy”, just to highlight a few quips. Again, it’s not right IMO, but it is reality.”
Just a quip that this is so true in my field, which is not supposed to care about such things. I sit on a lot of hiring committees, and so many people were subtly and sometimes not-so-subtly rejected because of their interview clothes. Don’t let DS or DD skimp on that first interview suit, folks!
I would also question the blanket assumption that buying a $75-100 item of clothing makes one “rich.” My parents were pretty poor, and they always taught me to buy one high quality item that would last instead of three that wouldn’t (once we were grown, of course). I still remember what a struggle it was for my mom to buy a dress for me to interview for scholarships for college. She insisted I get something decent. I think it actually was about $75 back then in the 80s. I distinctly remember standing at the counter paying for it. I knew it meant pancakes for dinner for a few days that week. But she was right. I wore that dress for years and got every scholarship and every job I interviewed for in it. Maybe it was the confidence it gave me, but I also think that it was just a really great dress. Sadly enough, it’s probably fashionable again 
It is interesting that some people here will both acknowledge that this is all about perception and relativity, but then state with definity that something is very expensive or that a specific salary or asset level makes one unequivocally “rich”.
I don’t want to continue to harp on the cost of pants issue, and I know you can find a pair for 25 bucks. But if $75 is very expensive, what adjective would one use to describe a pair that costs $400 or more? Maybe “insanely” expensive?
@ccprofandmomof2 The poster who stated that she bought clothes that were “moderately” expensive was not talking about a special purchase of an interview suit. She was talking about routinely buying them for work and nights out. I do understand the need to have a decent wardrobe for work and interviews. Its unfortunate that people are judged that way, but it is reality. My statement was not about the wisdom or morality of buying those things, but about the perception that they are only “moderately” expensive. If a $100 top is only moderately expensive to you, that indicates a certain level of wealth and comfort. She did not say, I need to buy all these very expensive clothes because my career depends on it. She said she only buys “moderately” expensive clothes.
@RandyErika I would definately call a $400 top “insanely” expensive.
I don’t see how one could come to that conclusion based on the comments on this thread. I haven’t noticed anyone expressing that to which @garland alludes, that is, wealth anxiety and political resentment of the less well off.
I suppose it makes sense to postulate that people would vote consistent with their economic self interest, but it seems they often don’t, whether they’re the haves or the have nots.
DW and I are “haves”, but we vote our beliefs, specifically that income taxes are too low and the safety net is too stingy.
That said, we could hardly be accused of being “limousine liberals”. Like many in the top 10% wealthwise, DW and I are the millionaires next door. We go out for a prime rib dinner every week and, yes, we arrive at the restaurant in a BMW, but the car is 12 years old and the prime rib is two for $19.
Prime rib for two, with salads, a martini (gin, up, a little dirty, frosty cold, and being mixed as soon as they see us walk in the door), and a glass of cabernet, for $50 all in, including tax and generous tip, that’s as good as it gets. So maybe I’m rich after all.
@sherpa You can expect to see responses that $50 meals are a luxury only the rich can afford.
@RandyErika - That’s right, and I would tend to agree.
@randyerika I’m actually surprised by your reluctance to label certain things as “expensive” or “luxeries.” Yes, a delicious meal at a good restaurant IS a luxery. But why is that a problem? What is wrong with acknowledging one’s good fortune as so many have already done on this thread. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that there is anything wrong with spending on luxeries. I am very grateful for the many, many luxeries I have been able to afford for my family, including things like summer camp and music lessons.
I am also not suggesting that if you indulge in such things, that automatically makes you rich. I know famlies of very moderate means who save up for occasional luxeries. There are families making 60K per year who scrimp and save for years and take the kids to Disney world. But Disney is clearly a luxery and clearly very expensive.
My original comment was that if you don’t view those things as expensive, that could explain why someone making a great deal of money might not see themselves as rich. I have nothing against people who spend on whatever they want.
If you ever happen to see one of those wealthy lifestyle magazines like *WSJ/i, you may find that $75 is “cheap” compared to some of the stuff shown. The magazines have interviews of people with listings of stuff that they are wearing and the price (commonly four figures for some items). Though when they interviewed NBA player Stephen Curry, he was wearing stuff like $22 UnderArmour shirts (he has an endorsement deal with UnderArmour).
But then if someone actually buys clothes that expensive (the four figure stuff, not Curry’s $22 shirts) on a regular basis, s/he must be extremely wealthy, or may not be wealthy for long…
@gallentjill Sorry but you’re putting words in my mouth. I never said that going out to dinner wasn’t a luxury. What I implied was that spending $50 on a meal is not expensive. People are entitled to disagree, but that doesn’t make it a fact.
And I didn’t disagree that considering a $75 top or pair of pants was moderately expensive. You decided to label it as very expensive. Again, I disagree based on my lifetime of experience (understanding that others have different experiences and perceptions).
We could discuss the varied costs of pretty much anything - cars, electronics, homes, colleges, vacations, etc. I have no doubt we’d end up disagreeing on those things as well. I don’t mind disagreeing - but I don’t like feeling as if my opinions are somehow less valid.
Dressing the part of a well paid Silicon Valley software developer is not expensive (or should not be, despite the efforts of some fashion stylists who market expensive items that look just like inexpensive T-shirts, sweatshirts, and jeans).
However, even in that context, patterns of dress by women versus men suggest that women are more concerned about appearance than men, probably due to the belief in the sexist phenomenon that women are judged by and judge others by appearance more than men.