<p>“The vast majority are going to be admitted to USC in May.”
you dont know that. </p>
<p>“No scholarship money is at risk as they will get the NMS Presidential.”
Huh?? USC PAYS for the 1/2 tuition NM scholarships AND the 1/2 tuition Presidential scholarships., as well at the $1000/ year that NMS’s recieve. They ALL come out of the same pot! </p>
<p>USC is not assuming that ALL NMS students who they accept will matriculate there. Past history, and the fact that many of these same students, if accepted at other, far richer aand, yes, more “prestigious” U’s such as HYPS, may be offered more $$ overall than USC can offer or match, means that they have to be more selective with who they offer DO merit scholarships to. And they certainly dont admit all the NMSF that apply, any more than the Ivys, or all the other top 25 U’s in the country do!</p>
<p>NMF (not NMSF) get automatic 1/2 tuition at USC because USC is interested in enrolling such students. But applications are reviewed holistically. None of us sees how many Engineering majors vs. tuba players vs. Intel scholars vs. creative writers are applying in a given cycle, nor how well particular essays conveyed each student to the adcom. It seems texaspg is accusing USC of covering up a conspiracy to NOT admit the very top students (NMF) they covet. I’m all for uncovering twisted plots, but I see no support for the assertion that USC has limited funds for NMF awards. I must say it’s an unusual suggestion, as I don’t believe anyone has ever accused USC of not being able to fundraise. Quite the opposite. In fact, over the years, observers here have not been able to detect a trend in NMF status being either a bump or a ding. Despite a lack of verifiable evidence, if some logic persuades you that USC limits its NMF pool (students who would, in fact, lift USC’s overall admitted student gpa and SAT stats, right?) when making admissions decisions (or scholarship invitations), it’s certainly your right to think so. </p>
<p>But please don’t attack posters personally when they don’t agree with these plots and suggestions. Since there is no financial data to base such conclusions here on cc–this is simply speculation and while I suppose it might be correct (can’t prove otherwise) the idea USC actually disadvantages top candidates comes off as weirdly paranoid. Personal anecdotes aside, only the admissions reps read thousands of essays, compare the rigor of differing HS’s, and know their institutional need each year. </p>
<p>When alamemom–or any of us who watch USC’s admissions process over many years–states her opinion, she is less motivated by some blind love of USC (please!) than trying to get clear information out to lots of interested parties through the haze of unsupported scare-inducing posts. Our students have thrived here, but we do not work for this school. In fact, we all feel regret to know that not every talented top student will be admitted, much less offered a large financial prize. And we are, alas, used to seeing parents and students struggling to understand the outcomes, when they are not those hoped for, or when notifications are delayed. </p>
<p>To suppose USC dings NMFs doesn’t make sense except to folks who would like to think their disappointment over invited scholarships or even admission is somehow part of USC’s secret plot. But to any who believe there is a conspiracy in the adcom to discriminate against NMF but also don’t want to leave NMF information off their applications (and since it is not required info in any way on the application, how can omitting such what is essentially just another outside-of-school honor be dishonest?) you have every right not to apply to USC. Free country.</p>
<p>S received letter today from Admissions. They are aware that he is a NMSF & once gaining finalist status he would be awarded Presidential + $1000 stipend.</p>
<p>madbean - USC is a great school. I had no intention of maligning the school in anyway and I apologize if it sounds that way to anyone. I wish the parents and students affiliated with the school only the very best.</p>
<p>There are 15,000 NMFs on February 15th. When USC, a top 25 school which can offer a possible major to every type of kid in high school today makes it a point to announce an automatic half tuition scholarship upon an admit, the school does and will attract a lot of students sending a ‘just in case’ application. If someone knows the exact numbers of NMSF applicants please feel free to provide that number but my guess is there are more than 5000 such applicants. NMFs are academically qualified if not fully vested in USC. So it is incumbent upon the adcoms of a way to ensure they admit the right NMFs out of this vast pool of applicants, to find those who will ultimately show up while not rejecting those who are truly interested. All I said was that the school will have an internal limit on the scholarship budget (if anyone knows how much, please provide the numbers but unlimited for NMF seems farfetched). The school needs to make some choices on who and how many automatic half scholarships they can provide, ensure equity among the various majors etc. </p>
<p>It is a discussion and not a Diss.</p>
<p>dadinNEB - Your son is already admitted though?</p>
<p>but my guess is there are more than 5000 such applicants</p>
<p>that would be almost 30% of all NMF, which I think is not even close to being a likely number for many reasons
1] there are many U’s and colleges that offer FAR more generous scholarships to NMF’s-as in full tuition or full tuition + R&B.
2] many of the NMF’s have the “stats” to get into HYPS and other top colleges which offer more generous FA programs overall than USC to students below a certain financial threshold, even with the 1/2 tuition scholarship thrown in. And face it , many top students come from the 1% of wage earners in this country and a 1/2 tuition scholarship is not enough to get them to even think about applying to USC, let alone accepting an offer of admissions and turning down a higher ranked U.
USC at this point simply cant compete with the richest U’s .
and its rank is not "high’ enough yet to attract all the kids that apply to all the top colleges- HYPSMC, etc, etc.<br>
3] In looking a hundreds of “where can I get in?” querys from top students on CC, I rarely see USC mentioned along side HYPS, Chicago, other Ivys Wash U, Rice, etc, etc.<br>
And there are plenty of Trustee kids each year who do post that they wont go to USC if they are accepted at their top choice college. Your own nephew, a Trustee awardee went to Stanford, correct? </p>
<p>In other words, USC’s appeal is at this time, still much more limited , especially to many from the NE. </p>
<p>that may change, but I would be very surprised if even 10% or 1500, of the NMF’s applied to USC.</p>
<p>“makes it a point to announce an automatic half tuition scholarship upon an admit”
fyi, this program has been around for over 7 years- its not new.</p>
Okee dokee, let’s use your numbers. I have no idea what you are basing your numbers on and as there were about 3,000 who applied last year I am not sure it will increase that much (66%!!!), but if you want to use 5,000, let’s see how it would pan out:</p>
<p>5,000 NMSF applicants. Last year USC had a 24% admission rate, but it will necessarily go down this year because of the surge in applicants. Some feel it will go to 18%, but let’s be conservative and say 20%. 5,000 X 20% = 1,000 potentially admitted NMSF.</p>
<p>Last year the yield was 34%, but again, due to the switch to the common app and, as you term them, “just in case” applications, the yield is expected to go down. Let’s be conservative again and say it will only go down to 30%. 1,000 admitted NMSF X 30% yield equals 300 NMSF accepting the offer of admission and scholarship offer. That number is actually not far off from last year’s number.</p>
<p>Last year, USC enrolled 247 NMSF <a href=“http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/private/1112/USCFreshmanProfile2011v4.pdf[/url]”>http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/private/1112/USCFreshmanProfile2011v4.pdf</a> , so I feel that they would be quite pleased to enroll 53 more - as those of us who have watched USC’s strategies to rise in rankings know, the big reason they work so hard to recruit NMSF is that it is a factor in the rankings and USC would be very pleased to enroll a few more this year and - combined with the expected drop in admission rate - edge up even a bit more in the rankings (if you don’t feel that is important to USC, then you don’t know USC). Using your numbers it looks like there will be no problem with the NMSF scholarships, but it is kind of you to be concerned about USC’s budget.</p>
<p>BTW: Have you considered that it is more likely that it is actually the non-NMSF Presidential that may be limited? It is far more likely that USC would reduce the numbers of non-NMSF Presidential scholarships if there was a surge in NMSF applications if, as you seem to be sure (though I haven’t seen you support your assertion in any way), there is a secret limit on the Presidential scholarship.</p>
<p>MPM - You are right about the stanford decision but there was considerable FA involved in that decision. If my kid is admitted to HYPSM, there is zero FA from any of them and I would have given serious consideration if a trustee scholarship was involved. I do know parents who refuse to pay the fullfare when not qualifying for FA and so USC looks attractive to them. </p>
<p>I am aware that NMSF half tuition existed for a while. I know someone who got that 6 years ago and graduated 2 years ago from USC. </p>
<p>The reason I think a lot more NMSFs apply is because I know within my kid’s school a bunch of those qualified applied and most parents I talk to say they have applied because of the NMSF qualification. It is just another application in common app because no one is sure who can get in where when apply and the deadline for scholarships is before anyone knows EA/ED results.</p>
<p>Alememom - I did not know about the 3000 number from last year but don’t you believe it is still a large number applying?</p>
<p>Yes, I believe there are a large number of NMSF applying - and almost certainly more than last year. USC does not offer the largest of the NMSF packages, but they are one of the most prestigious schools to offer 1/2 tuition, so it is an attractive offer for many. USC has not gone blindly into using The Common Application - it is something they have carefully considered over several years, so I am sure they have done careful estimates themselves and are prepared for the numbers.</p>
<p>There is some confusion about the admit part though, and many NMSF applicants seem to assume that NMSF gets an auto-in at USC, and that is not the case at all. As madbean mentioned in post #62, as we have observed admissions over 5 cycles, it has seemed that NMSF are heavily recruited but then admitted in similar percentages to non-NMSF. This comes as quite a blow to many NMSF applicants when they receive a rejection letter, as approximately 80% of them will - just as approximately 80% of all applicants will. NMSF is not an auto-in, but neither is it a negative. USC wants NMSF.</p>
<p>“The reason I think a lot more NMSFs apply is because I know within my kid’s school a bunch of those qualified applied and most parents I talk to say they have applied because of the NMSF qualification”</p>
<p>Your in Texas correct? That’s far closer to Calif than where most NMF’s are from. And statistically 70% of college students end up at colleges within 700 miles of home.
What I have noticed is that once a number of students from a particular school apply to and end up going to USC on a nice big scholarship, the word spreads to others at that school. But to the great majority of NMF’s in the east coast, with hundreds more colleges and U’s to apply to, including a majority of what are considered the top U’s as well as wealthiest colleges in the US to choose from, fewer are going to apply to USC than kids from Calif [ which as 2000 NMSF’s] and Texas, [which has 1400’. Top NMF’s who need lots of $$ also have Alabama, and many other full tuition+ R&B programs [ U of Maryland, the Roberston at NCarolina, etc, etc] tom choose from that also appeal to tip top students in need of $$.
Kids from Texas and Calif have far fewer great colleges to apply to, especially if they dont want to go to their flagship U’s. </p>
<p>so I think you are extrapolating outward too far the high level of interest in USC that your DS high school is experiencing.</p>
<p>re this post:
“USC wants NMSF.”</p>
<p>I would say that USC want top students, regardless of whether they are NMSF’s or not. But since there is a strong positive correlation between PSAT scores and top students, they choose to offer scholarships to NMF’s.</p>
<p>"there were about 3,000 who applied last year "
where did you get this # from? I had not seen it before.</p>
<p>"This comes as quite a blow to many NMSF applicants when they receive a rejection letter, as approximately 80% of them will - just as approximately 80% of all applicants will. NMSF is not an auto-in, but neither is it a negative. USC wants NMSF. "</p>
<p>I am estimating the scholarship budget at USC to be around $65,000,000 using last year’s numbers and using a 4 year figure. I am off by tens of millions since it includes only the academic ones and not athletics. I also have no clue about the FA budget it does sound like a much larger budget since it covers almost 60% of the students.</p>
<p>USC Mork Family Scholars (full tuition + stipend) 20 48000 $960,000
USC Trustee Scholars (full tuition) 140 43000 $6,020,000
USC Presidential Scholars (half tuition) 349 21500 $7,503,500
USC Dean’s Scholars (quarter tuition) 107 10750 $1,150,250
Recipients of other USC merit scholarships 63 5350 $337,050
National Merit Scholars 247<br>
Total $15,970,800 times 4.</p>
<p>I have seen numbers floated by Harvard at 150 million annually in FA. If you add all the numbers that includes the above + athletics + FA, I would be surprised if USC does not surpass Harvard in totals.</p>
<p>One thing I want to understand is NMS number of 247 listed above. If I read it correctly, these people already included in the Mork, trustee and presidential numbers and not necessarily a separate list of an extra 247 scholarships and that is the reason I did not assign a price tag. If I read the scholarship profile, there are only 200 presidential scholarships that are considered official and there are 349 listed here.</p>
<p>^ You have to remember that USC tuition scholarships are discounts on tuition and not an expense to USC. They are accounted for in reductions of revenue projections for tuition.</p>
<p>"You have to remember that USC tuition scholarships are discounts on tuition and not an expense to USC. They are accounted for in reductions of revenue projections for tuition. "</p>
<p>I am no accountant but from the way schools operate, they have a budget to account for it and not just assume it as lowered revenue. If I am not mistaken, this money is coming from various sources (the 20 scholarships funded by Mork fund, another 10 funded by Stamp family etc, endowments, alumni funding different scholarships etc). Someone familiar with USC may be able to point out a annual budget sheet somewhere. </p>
<p>“they ARE a separate list of an extra 247 scholarships”</p>
<p>I redid my numbers and raised the estimates now closer to $85 million in annual merit scholarships. </p>
<p>"USC provides more than $225 million of USC funds to undergraduate students.
This includes FA as well as scholarships. " </p>
<p>Page 25 makes it look like the way alememom believes the scholarships are accounted for by just reducing revenue. </p>
<p>Page 26 shows a breakdown of scholarships which shows it differently, some as institutional and some as endowed (I assume this means they are named after people or groups). It looks like undergrad funding is 243 million.</p>
<p>NMSF/NMF should not be shocked to be denied admission to selective schools or they are not very well informed about the college admission process. Just because they did well on the PSAT in a certain state doesn’t mean they are uniquely qualified for college admission at any given school. They should understand the competitiveness of the entire pool of students applying to any school or any scholarship. Yes, it may be a blow— just like it is when they are rejected from HYPS etc… even though they are “qualified” stat wise-- but in no way should it come as a shock.</p>
<p>Most top 20 schools say they could not careless if someone has national merit since they claim to be getting the cream of the crop. Some schools like Chicago, Wash U and Northwestern say we recognize national merit but give them a token scholarship of 1000-2000 per year as recognition. Then you have some state schools that treat you like royalty and give you priority admissions and free applications etc to get you in.</p>
<p>USC is in between, giving 21k in merit scholarship which sends a serious signal to NMFs that they are very much wanted. However, there is a high possibility of getting rejected (I see alememom suggesting 80%) which gets really confusing.</p>