<p>lakes,
That’s actually quite the opposite. The correlation between IQ scores at a very young age and prediction of scores/abilties later in life is actually low, given the large range in developmental skills at a young age. If a kid gets an IQ score of, say 135-140 at age 3, they might have a score , while still high, but perhaps (and this is purely made up for example) when retested as a teen or adult, may only have a score of 115-120. </p>
<p>Thes IQ scores compare a child to others of their age, and if a child is being taught things early, before a traditional developmental age, they will look very advanced compared to their peers. Does that make sense?</p>
<p>I and other parents have noticed lots of fluctuation among IQ scores when our children are tested at three year intervals in order to maintain gifted iep’s in PA public schools. Sometimes parents whose children score below the gifted cut-off at one testing and want their child in a gifted program will seek out a private professional who will give another form of IQ test, to find that a repeat testing will yield a gifted level of IQ. It may be true that only one percent of test takers score in the top one percent on any given test, but up to ten percent can score in the top one percent on one or another test. </p>
<p>I would also keep in mind that a subset of students with IQ in the average, above average, and gifted range will have enough scatter in their scores to qualify for special education services and gifted services -especially if they have access to an effective advocate - and easily outperform gifted peers with much higher overall IQ once their weaknesses are compensated. American public school education allows for this to happen.</p>
<p>The children are being failed because of a lack of political willpower to implement the same academic standards for the whole country. </p>
<p>My birth country (a small one, btw) has the same academic standards whether you’re in the boonies or the big cities. The standards are tough - every year I look at the STEM entrance exams and I can’t answer two thirds of the math, most of physics, and most of chemistry, period. Now, I’m not the brightest bulb in the pack, but after four STEM degrees I’d remember a thing or two. These exams are darned tough… In contrast, the SAT math and SAT II or whatever they’re called subject tests were a joke and I had no trouble with them. </p>
<p>How do kids get in back in ye olde country? the old fashioned way. 90% Cram schools and private teachers, 10% super-smart. The super smart kids are invariably from the boonies thanks to the stupid way teachers are hired (young teachers serve in the boonies for a few years then move up into the cities). Nearly every year whoever got the perfect grades and such was boonie-born. College is free back there, books included, but families spend a TON in cram schools…</p>
<p>I did the same 35 years ago. So, while high standards are not the panacea IP et al. may make us thing they are, they’re a start. And they definitely are the answer for the wild variation between high schools that are 20 miles apart.</p>
<p>Also, it seems to me that a lot of parents from (ehem) some parts of the world are way too competitive with their children, perhaps (again, from experience with said parts of the world) as a response for being, how to put it best, in my view at least, marginalized for not being perceived as competitive as their non-from-that-part-of-the-world peers.</p>
<p>I thought an IQ test couldn’t be gamed because it’s done by licensed professionals. Is it knowledge-based or aptitude-based?</p>
<p>Just a searching back to memories if one is old enough to know many babies. Has anyone had a thought like, “that kid is smart”, not referring to what she knows specifically but just in a general sense (a thought kept to yourself)?</p>
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<p>This is a good way to put it. Any tool has a precision issue. That’s why a few point difference in SAT scores has no meaning.</p>
<p>Once you know what’s being tested, the test can be “gamed”. And like frazzeled2thecore said, a person can have pretty different scores depending on the test used. So it wouldn’t be surprising for a parent to suggest specific tests to yield the scores they want. Also anyone with the right credentials can purchase the tests. Again, I wouldn’t be surprised if kids were taking practice IQ tests.</p>
<p>Why would anyone take an IQ test is beyond me. I understand that such tests are used in the very low skill jobs to weed out the absolute undesirables, but beyond that their use seem very strange to me.</p>
<p>An IQ test was useful to examine different parts of my daughters brain & how they functioned.
FOr example, although her overall IQ was tested at 160+ she had also learning differences in which she was not only below that high bar, but below where she should have been for her age.
These tests were combined with tests for small & gross motor function as well to give a full picture of how her premature birth may have been affecting her.</p>
<p>It was very useful, with these tests that highlighted her abilities and illuminated her weaknesses we were able to find an appropriate academic environment for her.
( & since they gave great financial aid, we didn’t have to have the financial resources of some of the other families, like those who live in Medina )</p>
<p>I had never known anyone who had attended private school, outside of those friends who attended parochial school so without the encouragement from the psychologist, I would have never considered it.</p>
<p>Our public schools at the time, did not provide support for student who were not at least two grade levels ahead/behind in every area, so for someone who was 4 or 5 grade levels ahead in some areas, but one or two grade levels behind in others, there was nothing except the type of classroom that aimed for the middle.</p>
<p>Since my youngest also had a stay ( much shorter) in the NICU, we were also able to gain information from the followup testing although since she has dyslexia, her difficulty with reading impacted the results even though her thought process was as advanced. It was still helpful however.
Also by the time she entered public school ( in 3rd grade) we were able to find a school which offered ( some) support for learning challenges as well as advanced learning opportunities.</p>
<p>:) She also was on the advisory board for the school & she was quite persistent to have us at least look at it. While our youngest didn’t attend that school, the experience raised our expectations and helped us find what our younger daughter needed. ( although it is much more difficult to get that in the public sector)</p>
<p>Oldest even worked there when she was taking a year off from college & I expect it played a role in her decision to enter a M.A.T program.</p>
<p>Do I (you/anyone) have a future movie star or a prominent politician in the family? The younger the kid the more dreams (day included) the parents may have. Aptitude tests might help parents see better.</p>
<p>Is that really normal / appropriate, to actively wish your child becomes a ------? (doctor, lawyer, engineer, movie star, musician, accountant). It seems odd to me. I can see saying, I envision my kid doing well at X, or I think my kid has real aptitude for Y, but I can’t envision “dreaming” that he becomes a doctor, lawyer, etc.</p>
<p>rob, the iq test I talked about is from the book nickel and dimed in America. I think it was about walmart hiring or something. Tests were used to weed out the applicants who would be unsuitable for even such jobs. Not sure where the untouchable comment came from.</p>
<p>My kid is not in any gifted programs. What are those?</p>
<p>Ek, I understand that similar tests could be useful for premies. I was just wondering whether there is any broad application of IQ tests. I never took one in my life.</p>
<p>IP, are you for real? You say your friends talk about the hi SAT scores of their kids, yet you ask what why there is a market for college prep books? You mention that some eleven year olds you know would score above 700 on the math SAT, yet you ask what are gifted programs??
I admit I’m blown away by what you apparently don’t know about elementary and HS education in this country or what criteria are used for acceptance by top colleges in this country. Perhaps none of your friends have children old enough to now be in college?
IQ tests can be one of the tests used to determine whether a child’s IQ is above 140- [i.e gifted or the top .5-1% of the population], as part of the criteria for acceptance to schools for the gifted or gifted enrichment summer programs, such as CTY, or the Davidson young scholar program.
try googling “gifted programs”- there is much that can be learned online .</p>
<p>The type of tests given by Walmart, Target, major supermarket chains, etc., are not the same kind of IQ tests that posters are talking about, IP. Those are called “pre-employment tests” and they supposedly measure a candidate’s fitness for the job as well as predict performance. Personally, I think pre-employment tests are stupid but they seem to be gaining in popularity.</p>
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