<p>Then the question goes to why the SAT even exists anymore. They have lost their “aptitude” label, they are just SAT, not standing for anything. What weight does SAT even have anymore? How well a student can take the SAT? I just don’t get it. Yet it is part of a multi million dollar industry. It is worthless IMHO. Just a way for the adults to make money.</p>
<p>Also, you will be surprised, that 30 is actually 93 percentile. And a 30 in Science is 97 percentile.</p>
<p>AP prep books are used in good AP classes, as well. They are used as supplement materials, not to replace class instruction. In a very detailed and very involved AP class, it is often easier and much more efficient to use AP prep books to study that focus on the necessary material than using all of the class notes. It is definitely easier in March and April to focus on the book than all of the materials and the textbook(s) used in the class. AP prep books also provide up-to-date practice tests. It helps to become familiarized with the test format and timing. All of my teachers have given practice tests, but there simply is not enough time in one class period to take an entire test at once, which is what happens during the AP exam.</p>
<p>So there you go David. You have to be kidding me if you think 93rd percentile is a poor score.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I am talking about Asian kids that are American citizens. Not many internationals apply to US med schools because the acceptance rate is barely above 0%. I have seen many Asian applicants score 13/13/7 (7 being the verbal) and don’t understand why they are not getting into med schools with their high science scores. My daughter is applying to med schools this cycle, and from what I hear the verbal is VERY important. </p>
<p>IP, why do you think that Asian (american) verbal/lit scores tend to be “low?”</p>
<p>I have no idea GAMOM. I personally scored higher in verbal than in quant for both GRE and GMAT.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Very interesting.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Hardly true. </p>
<p>While the acronym SAT does not “stand for anything” except for SAT, the test is called SAT Reasoning Test. And, rewarding reasoning abilities is not only at the heart of the test but also explains why the average unprepared high-schooler does so poorly.</p>
<p>As far as the AP books and tests go, since they are usually penned by people with strong ties to the realm of high school, they tend to reproduce the typical drivel that is taught and tested. The biggest mismoner (and joke) is that the AP program pretends to be similar to what college students will encounter. Yeah, like a mile wide and an inch deep is what college is all about! LOL!</p>
<p>And that is why I believe in what Khan is doing. I think education should be more tailored toward students instead of making a cookie mold model that throws out kids who do not fit the mold. More personal interaction means more tailored instructions.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The average high-schooler is unprepared to reason!? What are the schools doing then? what about those that don’t go to college and never prep for or take the SAT? They don’t know how to reason after 13 years of schooling?</p>
<p>Even with a good teacher for an AP, it’s still nice to have one book that you can practice with, that pulls it all together. When my kids took AP classes, I routinely bought one or two prep books per class. What they did with them was up to them.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the college p r o w l e r series is terrible. I bought kindle versions for my kids’ schools, and one of them was entirely inaccurate. It listed majors that the school has never had, listed restaurants as nearby that weren’t while ignoring the many that are 1-2 blocks from campus – it truly frosted me, because it says that they are just making up random stuff vs really investigating a school. These were basic errors, along the lines of “you can major in Physical Education at Harvard.”</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Do you really do not know the answers to your questions? Take a look at the AP curriculum and you will understand what schools do. Rote memorization of trivial facts cur down to bite sizes. Study something in September and forget it by January … never connect the dots … that is what HS teach!</p>
<p>It hard to teach reasoning if you do not possess the ability yourself!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>All I can say is wow!</p>
<p>Why WOW? What did you expect, IP? That AP Lit and Calculus were given to 9th graders? A better question might be if Calculus should be on the HS curriculum at all! </p>
<p>Considering how well students perform on such subjects in general, perhaps we should abandon the idea that high schoolers can master the subjects … within the four corners of the typical high school in America.</p>
<p>Calculus should be taught. I was actually mad at my school district for not teaching physics first. And the fundamental of physics is math, calculus being a vital part of it. Our school taught bio first, then chem and lastly physics. I feel very cheated. Actually 95% of school does not even take physics. My mentality is that without physics, you can’t understand chemistry, without chemistry, you can’t understand biology. Gah, it frustrates me. My counselor barred me from taking calculus BC. Saying that I did not take AB. I already know how to differentiate and integrate. I know how they are used in other fields. I would please like to get to differential equations and Taylor series and the other series. There are too many kids taking classes to be means to an end. It just frustrates me. Honestly, I had a teacher who could not differentiate trig functions. I asked her because I refused to take things at a face value and I questioned the system. How can an incompetent teacher teach someone if she had not mastered it her self? All she know was the rules.</p>
<p>Hell, there are a less than a handful students that can explain how a simple thing as a light bulb works. They may know all the equations, but without imaginations and critical thinking, it is impossible to grasp physics because they were unable to connect the dots.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Agree fully. The accelerated math track in our schools has taken on a “life of its own”…not necessarily to the benefit of the students. Sorry…but that is what I think. If a student NEEDS calculus for a college major, they can take it AT college…no need to take it in high school.</p>
<p>But this is getting OFF TOPIC to the thread which asks about college prep books.</p>
<p>I have used test prep books for my ACT. I used them to make myself more comfortable with the test’s format, and I did some of the practice questions. I made the decision to use the books because they were cheaper/more convenient/longer lasting than any class would be. As a rule, I either found a deal on buying the book or I borrowed it from the library.</p>
<p>I bought a review book for my AP US History test that I took my junior year. The class was ok in preparing me for the test, but I wanted to do some individual review. I looked at the test format to make myself feel more at ease about taking it and did some practice questions. However, the best thing about such a book was the concise review of the history. My teacher glossed over a lot of things for the sake of getting through it, so reading it in the review book was a good reminder. </p>
<p>And there are many students who do similar things. The books help the students. That is why we use them, and therefore, we occasionally buy them. This makes for the market.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I had 6 years of English Lit and 4 years of Calculus in my Indian school system, so I was surprised. But I do not want to go there any more. This will just generate more negativity.</p>
<p>One question though, should schools just drop the courses that students find difficult to master?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>We were not talking about AP here, we were talking about SAT. If SAT prep books can improve scores, and SAT is a reasoning test (both according to you), then I cannot square that with reasoning is hard to teach. </p>
<p>If prep books can teach it so can schools, I’d think.</p>
<p>getacar, Then why don’t the schools just teach from the AP prep books? Why is there a costly supplemental education industry out there? Doesn’t the public have a right to be taught the test material in the schools?</p>
<p>Indian Parent – American schools have only recently begun to teach kids how to take the SAT test, and most still don’t. Why should they? It doesn’t actually relate to anything – just a bunch of test-taking skills. And until very recently it actually mattered only to a tiny fraction of American students. It always mattered if you were applying to a highly selective college, but most people didn’t apply to highly selective colleges. Most people today still don’t apply to highly selective colleges, but a lot more people do than used to.</p>
<p>Plus, people have started to use the SAT to measure school and teacher performance, or to determine athletes’ eligibility for college scholarships, things like that. So now schools are under increasing pressure to prepare students to take that test, and that’s a negative development, because it doesn’t mean anything in terms of real-world skills. (Sure, it correlates somewhat with things like intelligence and likelihood of success in college, but that doesn’t mean you will be smarter or better educated if someone trains you to do better on the test.)</p>
<p>As for AP English Lit – it’s a useless course, practically. No one should take it. Reputable colleges don’t award credit for it. U.S. students take English lit (or lit in English, more accurately) every year starting in middle school, just like you apparently did in India. Some schools have 11th graders take AP English Lit, but most schools that offer it use it as the 12th grade English class. I don’t think it’s any harder or better than other English classes, and it doesn’t seem to build on them much, but it does require that students read more and write more than they usually do in lower-level high school courses.</p>