<p>
</p>
<p>And this, precisely is what bugs me about the whole test prep industry. In a country with socialized education that is completely unacceptable. I think schools have a responsibility here to coach kids for the SAT and AP, especially those that want to go to college and can’t afford the thousand dollar Princeton Review courses.</p>
<p>The test prep industry is a billion dollar plus behemoth today. That’s a shame.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Got it. Thank you. Look, I am not looking for a fight here, really.</p>
<p>“I had good scores to get into an Ivy, and I can help you have good scores to get into an Ivy. You can become a tutor like me when you graduate.”</p>
<p>A tutor in the book “Getting In” said something like that. I guess there’s much money to be made out there in test prep business. Very funny though.</p>
<p>lol bovertine!</p>
<p>I was, if I may say so myself, a very good literature and math student in high school (and before), and I continued to be a very good literature student at the highest level in college. And in all that time, the only times I ever had a multiple-choice test were the SATs and related tests (and a couple ridiculously easy New York State assessment tests in middle school). I never did any preparation for the SAT, other than taking the PSAT, I guess, but it was completely unlike any test I had ever taken or would ever take again (except for the LSAT and GMAT, of course).</p>
<p>By the way, I think colleges are using the SAT a lot more now than in the past, for three reasons, only one of which is respectable:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>It and the ACT are the only decently validated, universally available tests out there. And they are convenient, and get updated and re-validated all the time. That can’t be easy. They may not be very good, but without them there would be nothing, and there is so much difference in the curricula, rigor, and grading systems of high schools that without some common denominator it’s very hard to compare applicants.</p></li>
<li><p>There are lots more applicants to selective colleges now than in the past. Colleges that used to not be so selective are very selective now. The colleges need some way to sort out their applicant pools, and SATs are very convenient.</p></li>
<li><p>The emphasis on enrolled class SAT scores by USNWR in its rankings has forced colleges, especially ambitious second-tier colleges, to make that a centerpiece of their admissions decisions if they hope to improve their rankings, or merely not be passed by the other colleges nipping at their heels. Harvard and Yale can afford to be blase about test scores, but WashU and Tufts and USC can’t.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is precisely why we need national curriculum and exam standards.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>IP, you are satisfied with a ‘passing grade’? Is being passably good at squash and music OK? For a test, you want the highest possible score, so you prepare.</p>
<p>I understand that you don’t like references to India (because that shows an even bigger test prep industry and cultural affinity for it), and you don’t like personal references because even you with your mighty mathematical skills couldn’t get 800 on the SAT. But you can’t micromanage the thread. If I offend someone, I doubt if you will end up in trouble for it. And if you do, it won’t be really serious trouble, like jail time.</p>
<p>Students in our school use the AP Euro test prep book because the teacher teaches what he thinks is important and not necessarily what will be on the test. He’s one of the best writing teachers in the school for teaching the longer research paper which of course is also not on the AP test. The test prep books makes sure you are exposed to the things he didn’t cover.</p>
<p>One of the SAT math tests usually has at least one matrix question which is rarely covered in math classes.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Dude, don’t compare a stupid test to something you pursue with passion. For a test like GRE/GMAT (never took the SAT) I scored enough to get in where I wanted to. Any more energy put on the tests is energy wasted. You have to minimize all energy on things where you do not have passion. Which, for me, was frankly everything except math.</p>
<p>Now, if you have a passion for maxing the SAT, then I can understand using test prep.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p><sigh></sigh></p>
<p>
</p>
<p>And he still has a job? We really need standardized curriculum to stop this sort of nonsense.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Are you kidding me? Matrices are basic math.</p>
<p>Yes. But that flies in the face of hundreds of years of American educational policy. Curriculum was generally a local matter, or in some states a state matter, but never a federal one. When Carter created the Federal Department of Education, that was intensely controversial in part because people feared a federal takeover of primary and secondary curricula, and the feds couldn’t touch national standards with a 10-ft. pole. No Child Left Behind was a huge change in direction, which only a Republican President could have managed – because the Republican ideologues would have flayed any Democrat who proposed it – and even then they deliberately stopped well short of imposing national standards.</p>
<p>In effect, AP and SAT/ACT have become, by default, a privatized national standard for the 5-10% of high school students who want to go to selective colleges.</p>
<p>I agree in theory that national standards would be a good thing. But I don’t see it as a practical possibility anytime soon. And the last thing I want is for the Michelle Bachmans and Mitch McConnells of the world to be in charge of writing those national curriculum standards, or Dennis Kucinich, either. And that’s what would happen.</p>
<p>
Oh no, he’s universally considered the best teacher in the school. He does a fabulous job. He probably shouldn’t have to call his course AP Euro though. He has a very good passing rate nonetheless.</p>
<p>If the best teacher in the school is not providing enough education to pass AP tests, then the school is in trouble.</p>
<p>JHS, I agree with you wholeheartedly that the main risk to having a national curriculum is having the politicians decide it. But perhaps the College Board can device a national standard test which tests for subject knowledge in long form essay answers instead of the multiple choice nonsense that is prevalent today in the standardized tests. It will be harder to score such exams, and there will for sure be variations in scoring based on the examiner, but I have a strong belief that it would test for academic aptitude far, far better. Of course, I am biased. This is the type of exam that I am familiar with.</p>
<p>No, you don’t get it. The best teacher in school is providing the best education. The AP curriculum isn’t even in the ballpark of the best education. It’s a Babbittish, least-common-denominator, unscholarly mediocrity. (It has gotten a little better over the years, but it still emphasizes fact memorization.)</p>
<p>My 12th grade American History class was one of the best classes I ever took, and it maybe overlapped 10% with what an AP US History class would cover. The best academic private school in this community offers 0 AP courses, because they don’t want to dumb their curriculum down to the AP level.</p>
<p>Ip - you asked unthread about the distinction between passing an AP course and scoring on the AP test. The AP tests are given in May but scores do not come out til July, so the classroom teacher needs to assign a final grade in May/June and cannot wait for the student’s AP score to come back. Also, some schools require the student to sit for the AP test; others (like my kids’ school) do not, so it was purely the student’s choice to take the exam based on whether they wanted to try to get college credit (or if they just wanted to).</p>
<p>Honestly, the best teacher I had did not teach the class like most teachers. It was not a one size fits all curriculum, but an individualized one. He would spend more time with students struggling and give harder tasks to those who were up to the challenge. He would give you the generic tools and allowed you to build up from them. Not telling you how to get to a certain solution, just laying down the options and tools and letting you loose. He has a doctorate in electrical engineering. That probably was the difference. He did a lot of research himself and no one was there to spoon feed him stuff. And he taught like that. Great teacher. Best teacher I’ve had so far hands down.</p>
<p>Ip - one other thing of note. Years ago, the SAT was the premier test and the ACT was just for those applying to Midwestern state schools. That has changed and now both tests are accepted everywhere. Some states in the Midwest, including my own (Illinois) require every student, college bound or not, to take the ACT. Here it’s part of the Prairie State Achievement Exam. Since students have to take this test anyway, relatively few take the SAT – why bother spending the money? My own kids, who applied to elite schools, took the ACT, SAT subject tests and APs, but never took the basic SAT. There would be little need for schools here to teach to it and indeed it wasn’t easy to find an SAT prep course. It’s strange to me since I grew up in the east in SAT territory and never took the ACT, but that’s what it is.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is extremely true. There is a reason why the “curves” for many of those tests are so laughably low.
Good example: US History - the most taken AP test.
The released 2006 scoring shows that:
Overall, 62% accuracy is needed for a ‘5’ - apparently that’s supposed to be an A in a college class!
Overall, 42% accuracy is needed for a ‘3’ - what is generally considered passing.</p>
<p>These do include fairly subjective essay questions which are very hard to get to that top score (9), and ‘good’ essays can often get scores around 6-7. Those cut-off scores are still scarily low. I feel like there is pressure to keep adding the AP classes in, and to make sure kids are successful (as the AP program loves to claim the kids are) they have to just keep the difficulty low.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Just so I understand, the AP history course would have 90% material that is taught outside of the best history class you ever took, or it would only cover 10% of the what you were taught in the best history class you ever took? If the former, I find it strange that a dumbed down test covers so much materials that you were not taught in your best course. If the latter, then there is no need to supplemental AP education. Now I am really confused.</p>