Why isn't there more federal help in New Orleans?

interesteddad · September 1, 2005, 7:23pm

Specific steps that I would have taken starting on Monday afternoon:

a) Marine expeditionary units with mobile communications.

b) C-130 command and control plane circling for communications

c) Real-time observation of where refugees were actually gathering (as opposed to where the plans called for them to gather).

d) River barge delivery of supplies to the convention center. Why did it take 72 hours for the first delivery of water to an obvious high ground gathering point? We aren’t talking deep draft freighter channels from the gulf. There is a 45 foot channel from New Orleans to Baton Rouge.

e) Removing refugees upriver and/or across the river to dry land. They have one of the biggest transportation corridors in the US (the river) and it’s not being used.

e) Command and control personnel at the real gathering places to provide real information. The lack of communication to the refugees is major problem.

newmassdad · September 1, 2005, 7:32pm

OK. Let me add to the polarization here.

I find it curious that, in Florida last year, the trucks were lined up, loaded with food, water, ICE, etc., waiting for the storm to end to roll into florida for relief.

THIS TIME? Outside of a token disaster declaration, nothing significant rolled until DAYS later. And a flood is far more slow moving than a hurricane!

I realize this difference in response has nothing to do with having a brother that is governor of a swing state in an election year, but it does make one wonder.

And the biggest crime of all is that none of this aftermath is a surprise. The New Orleans Times Picayune had a 5 part series in 2002 about the lack of preparation and probable results of a CAT 4+ hurricane to NO. AND, this storm was predicted days in advance. The first forecast naming NO dates back to August 24. Go here to the NWS archive if you want to see. <a href=“Tropical Storm KATRINA”>Tropical Storm KATRINA;

So this whole mess is no surprise. What is the surprise is the lack of response, until one remembers this is not an election year, and Louisiana is not a swing state, and does not have a Bush as governor.

JeepMOM · September 1, 2005, 7:35pm

Ok - on a couple of those points I agree and are great ideas - yes the communications situation could well be improved - tho my question would be - could ALL resources be able to utilize it?? - probably not - the military has communications between themselves but not with others it seems - all different frequencies and channels - makes one wonder tho.

On a couple of those I don’t - the river has been closed completely - since monday - not usable - alot of debris in the river - deemed not navigable - have you seen one single boat/barge on the river?? No - just very small personal craft being used by citizens and now by nat guard/police. How would supplies be delivered to the West Bank - there is no way to get them there - tho yes it possibly would have been a dryer place.

barrons · September 1, 2005, 7:36pm

What is the state’s responsibility then? Have they no resources to get ready? Things were ariving in Miss and Alabama early as they were not as flood damaged. The area covers more than one state.
As to that prediction list–I see more cities not hit than were ever hit.

idad · September 1, 2005, 7:37pm

Let’s face it, if it were a Republican city, it is unlikely there would have been a cut in the Levee budget (not to say this is a Republican only tactic).

I remember walking down an alley in the Bridgeport neighborhood of Chicago when the old Mayor Daley ran things. The pavement stopped on one side of a yard, and picked up on the other. The alley was gravelonly behind the house. I asked why this would happen. My friend turned to me and said he’s the only person in the neighborhood to vote Republican.

JeepMOM · September 1, 2005, 7:37pm

NEWMASSDAD - FLA had trucks that were loaded and ready for the very 1st storm last year??? ooo really?? how interesting uummmmm

From what I understand there were some things rolling from northern and western areas and waiting as of monday am tho where they would eventually end up was probably somewhat of an unknown.

Your reference to the storm and NO - and Mobile/Gulfport, etc… - if you read down the report - it is NIL x3 that it would pass within 65 nautical miles of NO - which is per reporting bouy/station - and it was a tropical storm at that point also - not a predictor by any means of what was to come. The development of cat 2-4 was not expected let alone a 5 - but a rare occurance happened when it traveled over southern FLA that it actually accelerated in force and speed - so not much warning at all.

chocoholic · September 1, 2005, 7:39pm

The forecast shows a probability of 3% of the centre of Katrina passing through NO by Saturday 8:00 a.m. However, it hit 24 hours later, do you have those numbers?

barrons · September 1, 2005, 7:43pm

Other presidents also have taken aim at the Corps’ budget. President Carters’ first veto came against a big water projects bill passed by a Democratic-dominated Congress. And President Clinton squeezed the Corps budget as well. Doing so frees money for other White House priorities.

“I fought every … administration when they tried to use the Corps of Engineers as a piggy bank to pay for other projects,” said former House Appropriations Committee Chairman Bob Livingston, a Louisiana Republican who represented the New Orleans suburbs for more than 20 years. “I had major battles with the Clinton administration.”

“Going back to Carter. They’ve all sought to draw down the Corps of Engineers and put it elsewhere,” he said.

Former Louisiana Sen. John Breaux (news, bio, voting record), a Democrat, said it was clear during his time in Congress that flood control projects were shortchanged.

“Those levees are OK under normal times but once every hundred years, that’s not enough,” he said in an interview. “We’ve all said for years that a category 4 or 5 hurricane hit just right on New Orleans, there was nothing there sufficient to prevent New Orleans from being 20 feet under water.”

chocoholic · September 1, 2005, 7:48pm

Why is everything turned into a political discussion. It’s just a horrible tragedy, that’s all. Hurricanes change categories, intensities, and direction quite randomly. I just don’t see how anyone expected armies to be waiting, shiploads of supplies to be at the right location (not in harm’s way, but close enough to arrive in a few hours). It is highly impossible from the time that this hurricane passed over Florida, and intensified as it turned towards these 3 States, that ships could have been loaded with tons of water, food, and medicine and set sail for the right spot.
I have lived through a Category 5 hurricane, Hugo, and we actually partied with the whole neighborhood the night before. Only 24 hours later did we realize the horror of what had happened.

cheers · September 1, 2005, 7:50pm

Louisiana is a relatively poor state. Those who note that this event would not have unfolded like this in Baltimore or Miami or Santa Cruz are probably correct. Louisiana does not have the political power that those states have.

As for New Orleans being 75% African American, that is a misleading number. The official city boundary may be 75%, but Greater New Orleans, the ‘city’ is nothing like that.

This issue does have racial undertones which extend far beyond the hurricane aftermath. The socioeconomic situation in New Orleans has been a tinderbox for decades. Everyone who has lived there knows that.

Also, this issue has race undertones because everyone around the globe is watching as our poorest, weakest citizens are left to rot like animals. Our citizens, our people. We should be ashamed.

I hope those 200,000 aren’t left to wander the countryside. I hope we’ve progressed beyond 1865. Although it isn’t perfect, New Orleans also has a wonderful side, a beautiful aspect ulike any other city in the US. I doubt many natives could imagine living anywhere else.

This is the perfect window for faith based refugee efforts to jump in. I hope they do it soon.

JeepMOM · September 1, 2005, 7:51pm

CHOCOHOLIC - well said!

chocoholic · September 1, 2005, 7:54pm

What is worrisome, is how long the filthy water will be around, a cesspool of bacteria, petro-chemicals, rats, hepatitis, alligators. In a matter of days, survivors of the hurricane will start succumbing to dehydration, heat-stroke, and disease.

driver · September 1, 2005, 7:55pm

Louisiana’s problem is geographical more than it is political. As low as parts of Florida are, the water runs back out to sea after the storm. Not so in NOLA. The Times-Picayune series to which NMD refers is actually quite extensive–more like 5 parts each with 5 sub-parts–and it says a great deal more about the problems faced by NOLA than a simple lack of preparation for the big one or attempts to patch up old levees.

willow_41z · September 1, 2005, 8:01pm

Cheers-
The faith-based rescue and refugee efforts have already started, thankfully. A team from a Sanford church had loaded a truck with large amounts of food and water, and drove out on Monday, I believe, to be there on Tuesday. They had given out most of their food by Tuesday evening!
Also, the Baptist church of is setting up a refugee camp north of Atlanta, with three hundred beds. That may not sound like a lot, but it’s close to the attendance of many churches, so it will be a huge task.

I know there are many more stories of faith-based refugee efforts out there; these are only examples.

Unfortunately, chocoholic, the succumbings have already begun, especially in the hospitals.

chocoholic · September 1, 2005, 8:11pm

From 1851 to 2004, Alabama has been hit by 0 hurricanes(category 4 and 5), Mississippi also, has had 1 hit, Louisiana has had 5 hits. Florida, on the other hand, has had 8. I am glad that they are more prepared, regardless of which political party is at the helm.

cheers · September 1, 2005, 8:11pm

Just saw Mary Landrieu on CNN. She is palying a deft political game saying that the problems have occured due to chronic underinvestment by the federal government but she is not placing blame on anyone at this time. She said that her people are suffering and she thnaks President Bush Sr, Pres Bush and Pres Clinton for all their efforts–because a massive federal effort is needed. She is expressing herself in a very Southern manner, if you ask me, and she is a very southern girl.

I agree that geography is against New Orleans–as it is against much of California and Florida too. Still Louisiana is a low priority. It has a very low tax base by comparison. Health and education stats for Lousiana have historically been near or at the bottom. They didn’t get much investment because the ‘return’ hasn’t been there.

This has been the fact for many many decades–republican, democrat et al.

driver · September 1, 2005, 8:13pm

Louisiana is unique in our country. I mentioned elsewhere that my brother, a Tulane Law grad and former resident of NOLA once described it as the closest thing to a true banana republic north of the border. As he described it to me, it’s a very different kind of place–in many ways–than most of us are used to.

chocoholic · September 1, 2005, 8:19pm

The port of New Orleans is at the heart of much of our import-export network. Major rail lines originate there, barge traffic uses the Mississippi, most of our steel, grain, rubber, coffee, and of course petroleum comes in through NO. Besides it’s economic importance to the entire U.S., it is a huge money-bag for the State of LA. Between the Federal and State Gov., wouldn’t more investment here be of some strategic value.

bandit_TX · September 1, 2005, 8:21pm

First, the day after the hurricane NO was relatively dry and not damaged as much as expected. The levy breaks came later.

Second, if NO had evacuated to Gulfport, how would they have fared? You can’t out guess a hurricane.

Third, military operations are not designed to move in hours. 3 days is actually a pretty quick response to move units. They have to plan fuel, food, water, and comms for themselves. Then they have to know how they can help and plan that. Have you ever seen a military convoy on the highway? They move at about 40 MPH. The area has no power, no water, and no fuel. If you don’t bring it with you, you’re just another mouth to feed.

The river is not navigatable and won’t be for awhile. It is full of debris that will damage a ship and can’t be tracked in realtime. Docking is another problem. What could actually be done is air drops of supplies. It should have started the second day after the hurricane. I don’t know why it isn’t happening now.

Transportation is another issue that could and should be moving faster. By today, there should have been a continual flow of buses in and out of the city. It appears that this is now getting in gear.

Finally, given the emergency status, surely there are Wal-Mart (and other) distribution centers in the area stacked with supplies and trucks to move them. It is past time to commandeer the assets and put them to work.

newmassdad · September 1, 2005, 8:24pm

Since Jeepmom and Choco seem to have doubts - guess they believe all this is a total surprise, I’ve copied the entire 11 PM Friday, August 26 NWS/NHC discussion:

ZCZC MIATCDAT2 ALL
TTAA00 KNHC DDHHMM
HURRICANE KATRINA DISCUSSION NUMBER 15
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
11 PM EDT FRI AUG 26 2005

THE SATELLITE PRESENTATION HAS CONTINUED TO IMPROVE AND CONSISTS OF
A PERFECT A COMMA-SHAPED CLOUD PATTERN WHICH BEGINS OVER WESTERN
CUBA AND WRAPS AROUND A LARGE CLUSTER OF VERY DEEP CONVECTION. THIS
BAND IS PROBABLY PRODUCING NEAR TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS ALONG
THE NORTH COAST OF WESTERN CUBA. ALTHOUGH THE EYE IS NOT CLEARLY
VISIBLE ON IR IMAGES…RADAR DATA INDICATE THAT THE EYE IS EMBEDDED
WITHIN THIS CIRCULAR AREA OF DEEP CONVECTION. T-NUMBERS FROM SAB
AND TAFB HAVE INCREASED TO 5.0 ON THE DVORAK SCALE. THEREFORE…
THE INITIAL INTENSITY HAS BEEN ADJUSTED TO 90 KNOTS. AN AIR FORCE
RECONNAISSANCE PLANE IS SCHEDULED TO BE IN KATRINA IN THE NEXT FEW
HOURS. THE HURRICANE IS EXPECTED TO BE UNDER A TYPICAL 200 MB
ANTICYLONE…WITH A CYCLONIC CIRCULATION EXTENDING UPWARD TO THAT
LEVEL. THIS IS THE TYPICAL PATTERN OBSERVED IN INTENSE HURRICANES.
IN ADDITION…KATRINA IS FORECAST TO MOVE DIRECTLY OVER THE WARM
LOOP CURRENT OF THE GULF OF MEXICO…WHICH IS LIKE ADDING HIGH
OCTANE FUEL TO THE FIRE. THEREFORE…THE OFFICIAL FORECAST BRINGS
KATRINA TO 115 KNOTS…OR A CATEGORY FOUR ON THE SAFFIR-SIMPSON
HURRICANE SCALE. THE GFDL IS MORE AGGRESSIVE AND CALLS FOR 124
KNOTS AND 922 MB. THE FSU SUPERENSEMBLE IS EVEN MORE AGGRESSIVE
BRINGING KATRINA TO 131 KNOTS.

KATRINA CONTINUES TO MOVE STUBBORNLY TOWARD THE WEST-SOUTHWEST OR
250 DEGREES AT 7 KNOTS ALONG THE EASTERN SIDE OF A VERY STRONG
DEEP-LAYER MEAN HIGH CENTERED OVER TEXAS. IN FACT…DATA FROM THE
NOAA JET JUST RELAYED BY THE METEOROLOGIST ONBOARD INDICATE THAT
THE HIGH CONTINUES TO BE VERY STRONG. HOWEVER…THIS FEATURE IS
EXPECTED TO MOVE WESTWARD AND LEAVE A WEAKNESS OVER THE CENTRAL
GULF OF MEXICO. KATRINA WILL LIKELY TAKE THAT OPPORTUNITY AND
BEGIN TO TURN GRADUALLY TOWARD THE WEST-NORTHWEST AND THEN
NORTHWARD. THE OFFICIAL FORECAST BRINGS THE CORE OF THE INTENSE
HURRICANE OVER THE NORTH CENTRAL GULF OF MEXICO IN 48 HOURS OR SO.
IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT THE GUIDANCE SPREAD HAS DECREASED AND MOST
OF THE RELIABLE NUMERICAL MODEL TRACKS ARE NOW CLUSTERED BETWEEN
THE EASTERN COAST OF LOUISIANA AND THE COAST OF MISSISSIPPI. THIS
CLUSTERING INCREASES THE CONFIDENCE IN THE FORECAST.

FORECASTER AVILA

Note the sentence toward the end: “THE GUIDANCE SPREAD HAS DECREASED AND MOST
OF THE RELIABLE NUMERICAL MODEL TRACKS ARE NOW CLUSTERED BETWEEN
THE EASTERN COAST OF LOUISIANA AND THE COAST OF MISSISSIPPI. THIS
CLUSTERING INCREASES THE CONFIDENCE IN THE FORECAST.”

Previous to that, they already discuss some models forecasting a CAT 5 storm.

Surprise? Only if you are too distracted to read…

What happened in Florida last year? From CNN IN ADVANCE of Hurricane Frances:

“We are staging across – some outside the state and some inside the state – a massive response for this storm, and we’re going to need it,” Bush said in a news conference. “There’s going to be a lot of work necessary to make sure that the response is massive and immediate to help people once this storm comes.”

He said he has asked the governors of 17 states to waive size and weight restrictions on trucks carrying relief supplies.

His brother, President Bush, also offered support at a campaign rally Friday morning in Pennsylvania.

“Before I begin, I do know you’ll join me in offering our prayers and best wishes to those in the path of Hurricane Frances,” the president said."

Hurricane Charley (the first):

August 24, 2004
Hurricane Charley hit Florida August 13, 2004, killing 25 people, leaving thousands homeless and more than 1.6 million without power. Charlotte County, located on the Gulf side of the state, north of Fort Meyers and south of Tampa, is listed as one of Floridas hardest hit areas, with sections of Punta Gorda and Port Charlotte destroyed.

For Charleys victims and people with special needs, such as respiratory problems, help poured into the area. Emergency shelters were quickly established, early Saturday morning FEMA brought in federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams (DMAT) emergency units and supplies, the national guard arrived to aid rescue efforts and maintain order, and private businesses immediately began trying to find customers needing special support. Emergency information was broadcast by radio, and teams of volunteers began going door to door looking for victims…"

The response was ONE DAY LATER.

So, you folks who think this is all “normal”, WHY THE DIFFERENCE? WHY THE DELAY?

<ul>
<li>THE HURRICANE STRENGTH WAS NO SURPRISE</li>
<li>NEW ORLEANS AS TARGET WAS NO SURPRISE</li>
<li>NEW ORLEANS VULNERABILITY WAS NO SURPRISE</li>
</ul>

THE SURPRISE WAS THE LACK OF RESPONSE.

Why isn't there more federal help in New Orleans?

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