Why it's fun being Republican

Parent Cafe
101

<p>If you want civilized health care, you certainly don’t want any government involvement. </p>

<p>Do you consider England’s health care civilized–I know older people there who couldn’t “qualify” for surgery due to age. Wasn’t cost effective to replace that hip or bypass that vessel. Do you think Americans are going to stand for that?</p>

<p>What about Canada? I have neighbors here from Canada who moved to US because husband couldn’t get year round medical care for his Crohn’s Disease (when his Dr. had seen enough patients for the year, he just didn’t schedule anymore–sometimes for 3-4 months).</p>

<p>As far as taxation: The example was given above using gas station attendant charges or the price of movie tickets. Exactly! Why are some groups chosen to pay a different “price” in taxes? If we had a flat tax (excluding poverty level), people would not be penalized for working overtime, longer hours, investing money, etc.</p>

102

<p>“I especially object to paying for things that I believe are morally wrong, i.e. abortion.”</p>

<p>ME too! Except for me it is an unfounded WAR. So we are alike in some ways, we both pay taxes to support things we really don’t support.</p>

103

<p>SJMom, and I object to paying for things that I find morally wrong, like abstinence-only sex education. Deal.</p>

104

<p>“What about Canada? I have neighbors here from Canada who moved to US because husband couldn’t get year round medical care for his Crohn’s Disease (when his Dr. had seen enough patients for the year, he just didn’t schedule anymore–sometimes for 3-4 months).”</p>

<p>I live adjacent to Canada, specifically to British Columbia. When asked, 88% of British Columbians prefer their medical system to ours. When asked, 74% of Washington residents prefer their system to ours. We are the folks who would know each system best.</p>

105

<p>MKM56, do you ever listen to Neil Boortz talk about the Flat Tax? He’s a libertarian and makes alot of sense, IMHO></p>

106

<p>No, haven’t listened to him–will have to look him up ;).</p>

107

<p>Why would we want to emulate Sweden, the UK or Canada’s health care system? Anyone I know in the UK buys out of their public health because they say its terrible.</p>

108

<p>Because the vast majority of Canadian residents prefer their system to ours, and even the majority of Republicans in Washington State prefer the Canadian system to ours.</p>

<p>Anyhow, we won’t get to choose how to spend money. Instead we and our children will be paying for the outrages of the “tax and spend conservatives” for the next generation - unless we choose that the rich should pay for it.</p>

109

<p>Garland, I’ve lived in Northern NJ and NYC. There’s NO comparison to the two as far as cost of living goes. It seemed like to do anything in NY you had to pony up $$, whereas in NJ you could feel safe (and get value) using more of the public facilities, schools, etc. I don’t think the two are the least bit comparable. Having also lived in Westchester (where 15 years ago when we were househunting shacks were going for 350M) the cost of living there is exorbitant as well, but at least there were public facilities you’d want to use.</p>

110

<p>Which will never happen (the rich paying for the debt).</p>

111

<p>“Garland, I’ve lived in Northern NJ and NYC. There’s NO comparison to the two as far as cost of living goes.”</p>

<p>It’s hardly worth making the comparison. Median family income in NYC is still a little below $46k (half are below). Between Garland and Zooserman, we are talking about income 2X to 4.5X times that.</p>

112

<p>Hey mini-apparantely you never lived in Canada. It takes 6 weeks to get an MRI done there. It take 6 weeks for a hip replacement surgeory. In america it will take 6 hours for an MRI and about a day for a hip replacement. Brain surgeory you should wait for about 2 months, in america you wait about a day, sometimes two. Canadians come to america for health care when they need an important operation done, or even a simple diagnostic test. Mini, you also never worked as a doctor in Canada or America, but if you talk to doctors who worked in both countries- no hands down the better healthcare is in America.</p>

113

<p>“I live adjacent to Canada, specifically to British Columbia. When asked, 88% of British Columbians prefer their medical system to ours. When asked, 74% of Washington residents prefer their system to ours. We are the folks who would know each system best”</p>

<p>Now if the Canadians could figure out how not to pay so much for it. :slight_smile: And if we could get if for what we pay now. Having just returned from another furneral up in BC, I might tell you it’s a bit of the grass being greener on the other side. </p>

<p>It’s a cost issue just as the tax debate about the national debt goes. You pay for it, your kids pay for it or what? The Delivery system in Canada might not work with Americans as we have no patience whatso ever. Canada has begun to entroduce private health insurance in the last few years. It was forbibben by the government but they lost in the Canadian supreme court. </p>

<p>I honestly don’t think we as a society would buy into what it would take to make the US a cost effective health system. Let’s say you took the two blues in the state and took em over to provide health care for everyone. What have you eliminated in the process and what have you added? </p>

<p>Basically you’ve eliminated the CEO and probably 2 million a year in pay. However, you’ll probably have to replace them with a board or committee to oversee operations. You get rid of the couple dozen people handling marketing for both and cut another million. Agents make between 2 -5% in commission for sales.
Have we reduced the number of people needed to handle and process claims? We’re adding all the uninsured in WA, aprox 15 million ( or what ever number you want) What about their claims? Aren’t they going to have any?</p>

<p>So how have we made it cheaper in delivery? We’ve removed the sales process, but customer service still has to be there and so does claims. We’ll still have to deal with doctors and hospitals and their contracts. What should the deductible be? should we have a deductible? How much and for long will we allow a claim to go?</p>

<p>The Canadian system at a certain point just says “NO”. Are we willing? when you look around, willing to accept that answer. </p>

<p>No where in the world is health care working well. It’s working but depending on what aspect cost, delivery, effectiveness, results are all over the board.
There isn’t a perfect combination of price, quality and delivery to be found.
There are aspects we could adopt governmentally that other countries have that would improve our cost situations but then your going after the biggest and most effective lobby (with both parties) out there. That’s a hell of a meal ticket to give up.</p>

114

<h1>1. My wife is a nurse. Specifically, a hospice nurse. She works in the one part of the U.S. health care system that works well - 100% U.S. government funded health care.</h1>

<h1>2. Don’t talk to me about wait times. I have what is considered the best health care in Washington State. My d. was unable to get the knee operation she needed for 9 months! We went to get an MRI, and all the machines were broken. We went a second time, and they had to deliver it out of a mobile van.</h1>

<h1>3. The buses going to Canada for life-saving prescription drugs leave every week two blocks from my office.</h1>

<h1>4. Failed 10th grade math? You don’t deserve health insurance. There’s almost 50 million people in the U.S. that can tell you that, or similar. They aren’t waiting for health care; for the most part, they don’t get it until they end up in the emergency room, and even then it is iffy.</h1>

<p>Washingtonians are very savvy. Many of us have relatives both sides of the border.</p>

115

<p>We are unfortunately to close to that system with HMO’s, who know nothing about the patients of the primaries, but they are making decisions about the patients. Most of the time the HMO’s are not even doctors and have never consulted with the patient. So after the primary spends time examining his patient, making recommendations, and referring him to a specialist who also examines the patient, the HMOs can tell him that the patient needs no tratment. If you also add to that medical insurance companies paying a set feet for a whole group of people to have unlimited healthcare, and them going to the primaries, taking up time with useless inquiries, and the primaries losing money-well there u got the dems and liberals ruining americas great healthcare</p>

116

<h1>1. My dad was a doctor in canada, and is now a doctor in america. A specialist at that, who works at hospitals and at private practice. He see much better what goes on wiht healthcare than a hospice nurse in a gov’t funded center.</h1>

<h1>2. I do not believe that that even happened. You either have the worst health care in Washington State or are just a plane fool. I dont know about Washington, but in the state where I live there are about 3 diagnostic imaging centers within ten minutes- i worked at one of them. And in your state i am sure there is more than one machine.</h1>

<h1>3. Good, pills are cheaper in canada, too bad thats not the whole healthcare system. But maybe its interesting that America has alot more berakthroughs in pharmecuticals than Canada.</h1>

<h1>4. I am not up for ruining my healthcare for the sake of those who dont have it.</h1>

117

<p>“I apologize for overreacting to the “It’s MY money” riff”
No apology necessary. It’s totally cool to have a different opinion based on different life experiences. I enjoy hearing the whys of others’ opinions and you’re quite good at presenting those.</p>

118

<p>Having lived in both the U.S. (with the best health insurance possible) and Canada, and having lived through a life-threatening illness of one of my Ds for the past two years, I can say, without equivocation, that we are very happy to be in Canada. We’ve experienced both systems to a far greater extent than I ever wanted to, and those of you who are professing to be such experts about the Canadian healthcare system and saying how awful it is, well, quite frankly, you don’t know what you’re talking about. No one said that the Canadian system is perfect but it’s a h.e.l.l. of a lot better than the U.S non-system where you have tens of millions who have no insurance at all. </p>

<p>Golani, as is often the case, you are incorrect. One of my Ds injured her knee playing soccer. She went to emerg and was scheduled for an MRI in three days. If it had been a serious illness or injury, she would have had it the same day. No one is waiting two months for brain surgery. Do some people go to the U.S. for some kinds of treatment? Sure, but it’s a very small number and they do so for varying reasons. Ask the tens of millions of Americans without any medical insurance how they like the healthcare in the U.S. Each system has pros and cons but it is always the insured in the U.S. who say they’d never want the Canadian system.</p>

119

<p>My wife works for a surgeon in Seattle that fled from Canada. They regularly treat patients from Canada who don’t want to wait for treatment for painful but not life-theatening problems.
I would not trade my insurance program for what they have.
Please tell me about the wonderful inventive Canadian pharm industry. They are just taking advantage of our research and development and not paying for it.</p>

120

<p>“Each system has pros and cons but it is always the insured in the U.S. who say they’d never want the Canadian system.”</p>

<p>I would really like to see the stats on who is uninsured in the US.</p>