<p>I think money is always a factor, unless you are uber flush with cash. Even if one has 250k in the bank for a top top, is it worth the extra 100k over a Hutton or other state u honors? That money could be used for many other important things, grad school, retirement, etc etc. Should one empty the bank account for the virtues of an elite brand name? I’m struggling with this one and see both sides.</p>
<p>gman11, it is different for every family–I agree, to me it seems hard to justify that much more expense, our pockets are not deep enough for me to feel comfortable with that. This way, I feel we’ll be able to help our kids out with grad school/young adult expenses, and still be on track for retirement. My kid’s having a fine educational experience, and I’m not losing sleep over paying for it.</p>
<p>Others may feel a bigger name is worth big debt; I’m just debt-adverse and always have been.</p>
<p>^^^ I’m with you. I see both sides. My older son would be fine in either flagship honors college, or a small LAC. And he’s been offered merit packages at a top LAC that is actually LESS money than one of the top state flagship he was accepted to (state U. also gave him a merit award). It’s not a “one is better than the other”, because it depends so much on what state were are talking about. And although we live in VA, land of some of the best of the state schools, the competition to get into the two top state schools is equivelent to Ivy. It’s meant that many 4.2/2300 students are looking at other affordable options. There are state schools that are lower tier with honors colleges in VA, but is that better than an almost full ride to a top 50 ranked LAC? Every state has a unique different circumstance to take into account.</p>
<p>We knew that our boys would have grad/professional school in their future so we wanted to minimize undergrad costs so that we could help them with those costs. </p>
<p>Our older son is graduating this year and has been accepted to several PhD programs with assistanceships of full tuition and stipend, but we know that there will be costs that will still need to be covered. Our younger son will be going to med school, so LOTS of costs there.</p>
<p>With the exception of a very few relatively independent honors colleges - PSU Schreyer and ASU Barrett come to mind - I wouldn’t choose an honors college over an elite private. What I will do is choose an excellent public research university which happens to offer certain additional opportunities through an honors program.</p>
<p>My point? In most cases, I think collegehelp’s argument holds some water. The honors college experience is probably not quite as distinct from the overall university as marketing materials may imply. However, I reach a different conclusion based on this assumption because I believe that many of America’s large public research universities offer outstanding opportunities easily worthy of a top student. The availability of honors courses/seminars, early enrollment, and other perks simply serves as an enhancement of this already quality experience.</p>
<p>When comparing costs, be sure to consider the need- and/or merit-based grant you might receive from a private school. Use an on-line EFC estimator, for example. You don’t really know exactly how much a private will cost until you get the aid offer in April. Don’t be deterred from applying to private schools. However, they will still probably cost more than an in-state public. But, not $200 K more as someone in this thread suggested.</p>
<p>I think the culture, values, academic quality, opportunities, and peer role-models you would experience at a better university are worth paying for (if at all possible). I realize there are a lot of talented students out there who come from families with limited financial means. I have a gifted cousin who will probably wind up at SUNY Geneseo (the best SUNY) even though she is Ivy caliber. She is from a single-parent family. I don’t think she can even afford one of the NYS statutory colleges at Cornell. So, honors colleges do serve a purpose.</p>
<p>^not sure if you meant me–but I did not say other, private options cost 200k MORE. I said they cost 200k, which was more than we could afford to spend.</p>
<p>The actual COA difference between the public (OOS) honors college with merit aid, and the private schools which offer only need-based, (and offered us only loans for FA) for 4 years is about 100k, +/-. If she’d chosen an instate honors college it would have probably been more like 150k less than a private for the 4 years, assuming w/ instate tuition plus merit aid.</p>
<p>If a family qualifies for more FA (or student gets into an ivy, which are usually more generous), the gap between the honors public and the private may be quite different. We are very fortunate but not rich by any means.</p>
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QFT. If you like the overall experience and opportunities of a large research university, the honors college/program will only make it better. But if you actually want to attend an LAC–for reasons such as numerous very small classes or an intimate social atmosphere–be prepared to lower your expectations. The closest public schools to an LAC experience are “public LACs” like W&M, St. Mary’s of MD, SUNY Geneseo, TCNJ, UNC-Asheville–not necessarily the flagship or “best academic” public in the state.</p>
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<p>How many honors courses will the typical student take? 8 is not very many. But if at a given public school it is typical for an honors student to skip out of large entry classes and go straight to writing-intensive, discussion-intensive classes, then I think it becomes very hard to justify a big price premium for a private alternative.</p>
<p>^But also, does the typical honors student skip entry-level courses without AP credit? Not all students will come in with tons of AP credit, or they might want to study a subject not usually offered in high school (e.g. anthropology, linguistics, philosophy).</p>
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Those eight honors courses are likely used to cover gen ed requirements - ie large, low-level courses.
See above - the point of honors courses is to cover entry-level class requirements. For example, see the courses and seminars offered at UMN here: [Honors</a> Courses & Tutoring - University Honors Program](<a href=“http://www.honors.umn.edu/experiences/courses-and-tutoring/]Honors”>http://www.honors.umn.edu/experiences/courses-and-tutoring/)</p>
<p>IUmom7: I don’t know how to cut quotes and re-post them, but I wanted to address what you said about you being worried your child would get lost in the shuffle of a large school. That is a major concern for us - D is very shy and quiet.</p>
<p>She has every intention of getting her PhD, but was wondering if the first 4 years mattered as much as where she would go to graduate school. Cost is always a factor and she has the in-state money coming if she chooses a SC school; Furman scholars money if she chooses to go there (amount ?); etc… This BY NO MEANS covers everything, so money is a consideration for sure (it really is unfortunate that you can’t find out about merit scholarships prior to applying - it would make everyone’s life so much easier if we had that information up front). I have no idea IF or HOW MUCH financial aid we would be eligible for…from reading all the posts, it looks like we need to use one of the online calculators to figure that out. </p>
<p>Thank you everyone for your posts. :)</p>
<p>^^From the course listings at UMN and at UDel ([Honors</a> Courses & Tutoring - University Honors Program](<a href=“http://www.honors.umn.edu/experiences/courses-and-tutoring/]Honors”>http://www.honors.umn.edu/experiences/courses-and-tutoring/)), it seems like departments usually offer an honors section of ONE entry-level course. So Intro to Linguistics is an honors section–what about the core areas of Syntax, Semantics, Phonetics, and Phonology?</p>
<p>OTOH, Honors programs usually excel at offering interdisciplinary seminars/colloquia/capstone experiences for freshmen and seniors. It’s a great ADDITION to a large university education.</p>
<p>With regard to undergrad education “mattering”: Yes, it matters. No, it doesn’t matter as much as you might think. My advice is to attend the best undergraduate college that you can afford, whatever “afford” means to your family, and make the most of that experience. If she intends to get a PhD rather than go to professional school (e.g. law/med), then grad school finances will work themselves out.</p>
<p>The education will be different at EVERY school. How different from your D’s ideal, will depend on her own personal ideal. And social atmosphere matters, too, in determining academic success. Everything “matters,” but SHE will have to draw the line of acceptable adaptability (and you will have to draw the line of maximum financial cost).</p>
<p>Thanks Keil. Narrowing down my daughter’s list of colleges to visit is harder than I thought it would be. :)</p>
<p>I agree it all depends on the student. If your kid want to try for a job across the pond - saying you went to a well known school such as Harvard will create a conversation above saying you went to Schryers Honors College at Penn State…but if you want to work in Philadelphia - Schreyers will start the same conversation. I think it is important to find the school that FITS both the student and the student’s financial situation. The right job will present itself with or without a prestigious degree!</p>