<p>BCEagle is right again, more often than not, engineers don’t really understand what users want, and that’s how those higher level programming languages come about, better to do it oneself than to waste millions more on never ending development. Some CTOs have woken up and smell the roses, and others are still in denial.</p>
<p>Just checking in after a few days absence and I am totally confused. Think I need popcorn and a translation device.</p>
<p>(Actually, this is not an unfamiliar feeling. When my sons, all CS majors, start comparing languages, it is like a foreign language. Mostly in acronymns, too.)</p>
<p>And how can someone who purports to be an IT professional, writes software programs, and is an EE not know what an algorithm is? Even I know that.</p>
<p>Somebody mentioned before that Computer Programming is not CS. Is it still true after this discussion of Computer Programming, various data bases and languages? I was looking for something other than that since I am in search of identifying what is CS, since it is not Computer Programming using various languages and data bases on various platforms.<br>
Understnding what is CS would definitely help a lot in understanding why there are less graduates with CS degrees. I can only say that there are definitely less graduates who can do Computer Programming well, but I have no idea where Computer Programming belongs. In addition, I got most of my 9 jobs replying to ads in local newspaper that never advertised for CS positions, which made me think that maybe CS jobs simply do not exist in my region of the country and that could be the reason why I have no clue what it is and what kind of skills one has to posses for CS job.</p>
<p>One of my brothers built a business teaching engineers how to talk to clients so they actually design what the clients want. :)</p>
<p>I learned what an algorithm was in the first and only computer programming class I took in 1975.</p>
<p>Did you use punch cards?</p>
<p>Don’t pick on us dinosaurs! At least with punch cards you had a built in note pad.</p>
<p>No, no punch cards. We actually had a bunch of terminals that you had to sign up for and the big computer was behind a glass wall in an adjacent room. It took up the whole room. They taught us PPL - world’s stupidest language - a lot like BASIC except no one used it except Harvard. </p>
<p>I did overlap with a bunch of people who became Microsoft millionaires, but I did not catch the computer science bug, though both my brothers did.</p>
<p>MiamiDaP let me help you with an analogy to physics:</p>
<p>Computer Science gives you a strong theoretical foundation of “physics”, so you understand the underlying concepts of “pulleys”, not just how to use one or make one.
Computer Engineering teaches you how to make pulleys and how to pull on the ropes.
Software Engineering teaches you to integrate a pulley system into your catapult.</p>
<p>(Ganked from a discussion board.) :)</p>
<p>CS jobs are all around you…but they aren’t called “CS” jobs.</p>
<p>I may be wrong, but when I think of CS I think of something like this -</p>
<p>[PageRank</a> - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank]PageRank”>PageRank - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>It seems translating this into some sort of program is a necessary part of the project, but a minor part.</p>
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<p>I have a CIS undegrad degree and started out in applications
programming and then consulting and then moved into engineering so I
can appreciate the deficiencies of the pure CS types when it comes to
figuring out what customers want. The traditional approach is that a
Product Manager (someone with a marketing background), along with
engineers gather customer requirements, and determine the features to
implement or add.</p>
<p>There are a lot of people writing code in HLLs out there with no
appreciation at what happens at the lower levels but they wouldn’t
be able to do what they do without other people that write the
software at those lower levels. Yes, some of that software is tens
of millions of lines of code.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Yeah, even I know the Macarena.</p>
<p>Some (not all) physics and math majors do move into CS. They need to self-educate themselves about various CS concepts as well as learn programming skills, but having a strong ability to think mathematically and logically is a huge advantage over those with less such ability who attempt to learn CS concepts (either by self-education or with the aid of instructors in a more traditional college setting).</p>
<p>Of course, a physics or math major writing algorithms in his/her research may not need all of the CS concepts contained in all of the courses typically taken by CS majors, but may choose to self-educate on those which are most relevant to his/her work.</p>
<p>Note that theoretical CS (theory of complexity, computation, languages, and automata) is essentially a type of math.</p>
<p>
Huh? Guess that humor about line dancing is a little too obtuse for me.</p>
<p>Al Gore Rhythm.</p>
<p>Groan. That wasn’t punny ;)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think the key phrase is “purports to be.”</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.unc.edu/depts/jomc/academics/dri/idog.jpg[/url]”>http://www.unc.edu/depts/jomc/academics/dri/idog.jpg</a></p>
![http://www.unc.edu/depts/jomc/academics/dri/idog.jpg[/url]](http://www.unc.edu/depts/jomc/academics/dri/idog.jpg%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
<p>“And how can someone who purports to be an IT professional, writes
software programs, and is an EE not know what an algorithm is? Even I
know that.”</p>
<p>-I really am not called IT proffessional, I am just a Computer Programmer (for over 30 years) who never used punch cards, but I heard about them. I do not need to know what algorithm is, I have never, not a single time used this word in any of my classes or at any of my 9 Computer programming jobs (I will not call them IT any more, as I understand, it is different, althoug departments are usually called IS or IT). Before my Computer Programming decades, I have been working as EE for 11 years but did not get BS (about 3 credit hours short and never cared to finished as I did not like it). As an EE, I have never used any kind of algorithms either, I was taken care of very ancient electronic devices as it was in ancient times, they even had bulbs instead of transistors. My H. is EE (for close to 40 years), he never used any algorithms at his work either.
I am illiterate, but I still can write Computer Programs without algorithms.
I just do not know what CS means and at this point I am very sorry for giving advice to anybody in regard to this major as I thought that CS is what I am doing and apparently I was wrong. The proof of it is that I have no idea what algorithm is </p>
<p>"</p>
<p>For pete’s sake, even Mechanical Engineers and Physics majors write software. So, what differentiates them from Computer Scientists? Obviously writing software does not qualify you as a computer scientist; if it does, obviously computer scientists are useless.</p>
<p>A GREAT quote:
A quote from /r/compsci:
</p>
<p>Dappy-</p>
<p>I’m sure you’ve used algorithms. You may not have heard the term (although even that notion seems a little fishy to me) but I don’t think it’s possible to write a program without some sort of algorithm. It’s just a word for a method for doing something. Some are more complex than others, but AFAIK any list of instructions is technically an algorithm. </p>
<p>I think you’re fooling around with us.</p>
<p>So, as very very few CS’s are needed (“There are some theoretical computer science jobs though.”) as stated in #138, then the very few degrees are granted, that explains it all without any deep understanding of what CS is. We do not need to understand as long as those few understand. We do not need to understand medicine to trust our docs, correct? All agreed.</p>
<p>I Googled and educated myself:
“In mathematics and computer science, an algorithm is a step-by-step procedure for calculations. Algorithms are used for calculation, data processing, and automated reasoning.”</p>
<p>It is nothing but program logic. That is why I did not know, because nobody in all IS/IT departments and all the CS classes ever used it. It must be relatively new term in connection to Computer Programming. We just say “program logic”. One issue is definitely resolved.</p>