<p>And Hopkins with a big asterisk. Their competitive research grants total much less. So the publics have over 70% of the Top 25 slots. </p>
<p>[Applied</a> Physics Laboratory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_Physics_Laboratory]Applied”>Applied Physics Laboratory - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>Oh, I have a correction to make: Berkeley’s average grade awarded to undergrads. is actually more like a 3.3+ now as it was apparently 3.27 in 2006. It is therefore grading higher than the likes of Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Princeton, MIT, and maybe us (again, senior GPA does not=GPA for all UGs, that’s much lower, so we’re like 3.2-3.3). Same could be said for Michigan. Grades are higher than Chapel Hill and UVa. If not higher than the privates I mention, it certainly is grading very similarly to the private counterparts grading on the lower end. Are students at UCB just so superior to students to the at other elites that they handle all of the “scary” rigor that others run from w/more finesse than students at the other schools their own level of rigor (you know, the rigor that supposedly people don’t run from)? I’m betting this isn’t the case. My guess is that people attending the others anticipate the rigor just as much if not more. There just seems to be less complaining about it at those places (except Princeton for obvious reasons). Many of the others challenge their student bodies as effectively as UCB does its own.</p>
<p>They are challenging, but people don’t go out of their way to say it’s much harder than everywhere else and that others have it “infinitely” (one may proclaim that it is easier harder, but it won’t neccessarily be said w/anger or as if it is a night and day difference and that others should be scoffed at or envied) easier. They live with the fact that it’s challenging and rise to it w/o saying so much. Basically, they get over it. The grades at Berkeley (whether they need huge curves to get that way or not) indicate that they rise to the challenge as well, but that it is more common to proclaim that they have it worse off than “X” school while doing it. Again, why a qualified student would avoid it because of its rigor I don’t know. I suppose we have an argument if the person was choosing between them and Stanford where grades are far higher than normal but otherwise, a person dodging UCB rigor should also dodge that of various other elites, public or private. The reality is that they “heard” so much about it at UCB just like I “hear” so much about Tech rigor (yes, half of it is rigorous, but once again, I could comfortably handle the content in their natural science and chem counterparts. Physics, math, engineering, and CS…that’s a different story).</p>
<p>Highlighting anomalies:</p>
<p>1. Johns Hopkins University: $1,856,270,000 - MED school and APL included
2. University of Michigan: $1,007,198,000 - MED school
3. University of Wisconsin-Madison: $952,119,000 - MED school
4. University of California-San Francisco: $947,697,000 - MED school ONLY
5. University of California-Los Angeles: $889,995,000 - MED school
6. University of California-San Diego: $879,357,000 - MED school
7. Duke University: $805,021,000 - MED school
8. University of Washington: $778,046,000 - MED school
9. Pennsylvania State University: $753,358,000 - MED school
10. University of Minnesota: $740,980,000 - MED school
11. Massachusetts Institute of Technology: $736,102,000 - NO MED school
12. University of Pennsylvania: $726,768,000 - MED school
13. Ohio State University: $716,461,000 - MED school
14. Stanford University: $704,183,000 - MED school
15. University of California-Davis: $681,618,000 - MED school
16. Cornell University: $671,406,000 - MED School
17. University of California-Berkeley: $652,474,000 - NO MED school</p>
<p>and resorting:</p>
<p>1. Johns Hopkins University: $1,856,270,000 - MED school and APL included
2. Berkeley/UCSF: $1,600,171,000 - NO Med School + MED school only
3. University of Michigan: $1,007,198,000 - MED school
4. University of Wisconsin-Madison: $952,119,000 - MED school
5. University of California-Los Angeles: $889,995,000 - MED school
6. University of California-San Diego: $879,357,000 - MED school
7. Duke University: $805,021,000 - MED school
8. University of Washington: $778,046,000 - MED school
9. Pennsylvania State University: $753,358,000 - MED school
10. University of Minnesota: $740,980,000 - MED school
11. Massachusetts Institute of Technology: $736,102,000 - NO MED school
12. University of Pennsylvania: $726,768,000 - MED school
13. Ohio State University: $716,461,000 - MED school
14. Stanford University: $704,183,000 - MED school
15. University of California-Davis: $681,618,000 - MED school
16. Cornell University: $671,406,000 - MED School</p>
<p>How much do we subtract from JHU for their APL? Or add to Berkeley for LBNL?
:)</p>
<p>Sorry UCB, defacto schools are not figured into the totals. Btw, UCSF is not strictly a medical school, which I know you are well aware.</p>
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</p>
<p>Going through the mechanics of the application process does not give one inside knowledge of the admission decision process. While the parents may not necessarily be better informed about the admission decision process, the students would not necessarily be better informed either.</p>
<p>And asking only admitted students may result in a bias that causes the questioner to ignore other possibilities that would be prudent to plan for. For example, a pre-med who majors in biology but does not get into medical school may have forgone his/her other academic interests while getting a degree with poor job and career prospects.</p>
<p>“If they are certainly popular among the uneducated/uninformed parents and among school children, combined which make up the majority of people involved in the college process, then the rankings are widely accepted.”</p>
<p>Not really osprey. Most educated people are neither school children or uninformed parents of school children. There are literally tens of millions of people in the US alone that have university degrees. I would say only 1% of the general population and less than than 5% of the educated population pay attention to the USNWR rankings. There are roughly 1 million US News magazines sold annually. Of those, 250,000 are the college rankings edition. 250,000 magazines in a country of 300,000,000 is negligible. There are at least 50 magazine publications that sell more copies.</p>
<p>“If recruiters from graduate schools and employers don’t care about prestige of UG, then you will notice that the student enrollment at the top 20 colleges will be cut by half. In reality, this is not the case. So grad schools and employers do care about prestige.”</p>
<p>First of all, you are assuming that the USNWR ranking is a measure of prestige. It is not. Secondly, some of the public universities you mentioned are among the most highly recruited campuses in the nation by major companies such as the techs, the manufacturing giants and the services heavyweights (IBanks and Consulting firms).</p>
<p>
It isn’t?!</p>
<p>Straight from the horse’s mouth:
[About</a> UCSF | <a href=“http://www.ucsf.edu%5B/url%5D”>www.ucsf.edu](<a href=“http://www.ucsf.edu/about/about-ucsf]About”>UCSF Overview | UC San Francisco)</a>
</p>
<p>I think the OP got scared and left the building. No point in arguing fine points amongst friends.</p>
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<p>That’s disingenuous. The rankings are available on the USNWR website and are widely disseminated here and elsewhere. They are referred to in countless news stories by clueless journalists who don’t know any better.</p>
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<p>That is, in fact, exactly what they are, nothing more, nothing less. None of the other purported measures has any proven relevance to quality of education. Prestige drives USNWR. USNWR drives prestige.</p>
<p>^^ Very true barrons. ;)</p>
<p>I second UCBalumnus.
Kids do not know what got them into that college.
Nor do med students.
Adcoms decide. No subsequent detail is released.
Most kids, I would wager, don’t have any idea of the institutional goals for the year they got in…or the upcoming year. Nor do they know what sort of specific competition they faced.</p>
<p>Most college kids on cc (not all) are guessing when it comes to figuring out why they got in and what their advisee needs to focus on. </p>
<p>Holy Cow. This has got to be trolling.
And, yes, I think it’s mighty silly to claim parents have little insight. That’s, uh, sophomoric.</p>
<p>annasdad, the 250,000 figure includes online purchases. Not that it matters, since the online version costs more and is far less practical and user-friendly. CC seems to have scarred you annasdad. Don’t let it get to you. There is a whole world out there that does not really care about the USNWR rankings.</p>
<p>And the USNWR ranking itself is not a good indicator of prestige, nor does it drive prestige. I am not going to go into the details, but prestige is generally directly proportional to how deeply a university impacts humanity. There are exceptions (a couple of smaller LACs and LAC-ish universities), but that’s the way it is.</p>
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<p>This does not make any sense. Why would I get “scared”? I may feel defeated, which I do not feel, and leave but why would I leave due to fear? </p>
<p>I find it useless reiterating my points and support because I am dealing with a bunch of ignorant parents who have an established mindset and are unwilling to allow anything that may possibly challenge that mindset. Seriously, you guys seem like the Republican Tea Party on the issue of raising taxes. </p>
<p>It’s good to know that at the end of the day, the vast majority of parents and students agree with my logical opinions and can learn something from my initial post.</p>
<p>I’m still offended by your original post. How can I go back to school next Wednesday knowing that the school I go to is not setting me up for any success in life and is not “legitimate”?</p>
<p>Your original post is absurd. I really want you to show me what “study” shows that 3/4th of college students (that is, 75% of college students) can’t locate the US on a map. There is a study that 20% of US adults can’t locate it on the map (e.g., a fifth). But remember, according to the U.S. census, about 30% of the nation has a bachelors degree.</p>
<p>So yes, college does weed people out. And yes, it also depends on your major and your professor. But for those that exist, it doesn’t mean they didn’t get a good education or ended up on a promising path. Take the University of Oklahoma, they have the highest number of national merit scholars per capita because they provide a financial incentive to attract those kids into an honors college. Are those kids more qualified to go to “better” schools? Sure. But by generalizing universities, you have assumed anyone who doesn’t go to a top 40 school is getting cheated by their education.</p>
<p>Remember, that some kids who go to top schools have their classes taught by TA’s, grade inflation persists, and they have to rely on peer learning (cough, Harvard).</p>
<p>At the end of the day, having a college degree means you will earn higher wages, on average.</p>
<p>While some colleges do provide more opportunities (resources, etc.) that is not to say that the american dream, that top med school, or your dream job, is impossible.</p>
<p>For example, BYU is HEAVILY recruited on wall street. You wouldn’t think so, but it makes sense – the school heavily promotes ethics and honesty, something wall street is trying to promulgate.</p>
<p>So when you say that top ranked colleges are the ONLY (keyword) legitimate colleges nowadays, that’s just crazy. Especially when you define top schools by your arbitrary measure. This is coming from a kid who has no real world experience and is still in college. A person whose views don’t culminate to fact yet tries to assert them as such. Give me a break.</p>
<p>*I find it useless reiterating my points and support because I am dealing with a bunch of ignorant parents who have an established mindset and are unwilling to allow anything that may possibly challenge that mindset. Seriously, you guys seem like the Republican Tea Party on the issue of raising taxes. *</p>
<p>■■■■■. Possibly not JHU, but someone who wants to go.</p>
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<p>Tell me then why some already prestigious colleges are involved in an insane race to increase one of the factors that drives the USNWR ranking?</p>
<p>UChicago has sent my D no less than five mailings since she took the PSAT. She is not remotely in their possible admitted student set and her PSAT would have reflected that. The only explanation is that they are trying to raise their applicants-we-can-reject rate to make them “more selective,” thus higher in the USNWR rankings, thus more prestigious. I heard an address by the former admissions director last year and he said, flatly, that they were trying to increase the number of applicants.</p>
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<p>Prestige should be directly proportional to how deeply a university impacts humanity, but in fact, it is directly proportional to how the institution is perceived in the popular culture, and the prime driver of that is the USNWR ranking (and the secondary drivers are the other equally useless rankings such as Kiplinger or Princeton Review).</p>
<p>annasdad, there is no doubt that many high school students care about the USNWR rankings. As such, for a university to appeal to high schoolers, it certainly helps to be ranked highly. But that is not an indication of overall prestige. If you walked around the hallways of a major university, fortune 500 company etc… and restricted your discussion to professors and executives, you will see how few care about those rankings.</p>
<p>Obviously colleges are trying to appeal to high schoolers. But your conclusion is a little silly. I mean, you realize that selectivity accounts for like 1.5% of USNWR? Colleges are better allocating resources elsewhere. They want individuals to apply so they have a larger pool to accept qualified applicants.</p>
<p>But trust me, employers don’t care at all about USNWR.</p>
<p>Hallways of major universities and executive suites of Fortune 500 companies represent a vanishingly small percentage of the population. If you want to qualify your blanket assertion and say that the USNWR<->prestige circle doesn’t apply there, okay; I haven’t seen any evidence of it, but it’s not worth debating.</p>