<p>Not sure how this transcended from WIC to foodstamps. They are two completely different programs.</p>
<p>Yes, different, but the point would be the same. Both involve tax-payer money. </p>
<p>In my post, if a person is buying $60+ cartons of cigarettes with their own money, it’s kind of bothersome that they need to use WIC or foodstamps to buy their kids’ milk and cereal. </p>
<p>I have no problem with people getting/using this help. I do have a problem with people who get such help using their own money for cartons of cigarettes.</p>
<p>I do have a problem with people who get such help using their own money for cartons of cigarettes.</p>
<p>I have a problem with subsidies of the tobacco industry.</p>
<p>I can’t stand smoking either. When I was pregnant, my Dr was at a teaching hospital clinic ( I was private pay), that took high risk women, many were confined to the hospital. I complained about the obviously pregnant women outside the doors in hospital gowns smoking. My nurse pointed out that , it was “better” than the other things that they had been doing before they were admitted.
Oh.</p>
I’m guessing you have never been a nicotine addict. I have nothing but heartfelt pity for anyone who hasn’t been able to break that chain yet. It took me five years of my life and uncounted false starts. While I was an addict I could no more choose to spend money on healthier things at the expense of cigarettes than I could choose to fly.</p>
<p>So, kids who have parents who smoke should not benefit from WIC.
You can see how convoluted this gets. I don’t smoke, never have and I hate it. I don’t think parents of small children should smoke. But I won’t go off on them at the checkout.
WIC discourages smoking and perhaps at least some parents quit smoking around their kids because they are encouraged by their WIC nutritionist to do so.</p>
<p>Personally, I think that everyone who qualified for a government program should avail themselves of the opportunity. Any woman who will schleck their small kids into town once a month for a checkup to get WIC vouchers gets kudos for trying to do the best for her children.
“No” - we don’t have a right to tell people how to spend their money, beyond the requirements of the program. We don’t tell the elderly how to spend their social security check - even though they paid into it many folks will reap more than they sowed.</p>
<p>*It may surprise many of you to know that a family of 4 can make $40,000/year and qualify for WIC<a href=“the%20median%20income%20for%20a%20family%20in%20our%20county%20in%202007%20is%20$65,000,%20median%20household%20income,$83,000-%20so%20$40,000%20is%20well%20below%20what%20it%20takes%20to%20live%20here-%20but%20that’s%20where%20the%20jobs%20are”>/i</a></p>
<p>I don’t know how much the gov increases the before tax income allowed to qualify for FRL/WIC every year, but I remember the year I was pregnant with D2, we made $43,000 ( the year before we made $38,000) & for two or three months we had little to no income, because I was on bedrest and my husband was on strike with his union.</p>
<p>I was very concerned about getting adequate nutrition since I was already three months along before I found out ( I had been having periods), and had already had one premature delivery ( which was why I had been at the high risk hospital)</p>
<p>We didn’t qualify for any aid at that time except food banks & the pickings at our local food bank were very slim.</p>
<p>However, now the community is much more aware of food banks, and even as the draw on them is high with the economy, we don’t hear the desperate pleas for donations as in the past.</p>
<p>While I was an addict I could no more choose to spend money on healthier things at the expense of cigarettes than I could choose to fly.</p>
<p>So, are you saying that when you were addicted to cigarettes, you would have not fed your children and you would have bought cigarettes instead?</p>
<p>So, kids who have parents who smoke should not benefit from WIC.</p>
<p>NO! </p>
<p>But, when a parent has to use his own money to buy food for his kids, then he doesn’t have the cash to buy cigarettes. If a parent chooses to buy cigarettes INSTEAD of feeding his kids, then the parent isn’t a good guardian for kids and should have the kids taken away. The same would go for a parent who buys drugs for him/herself instead of feeding his kids. By giving such parents food stamps or WIC, that just enables them to use their cash for cigarettes.</p>
<p>And…that doesn’t even take into account those who sell their WIC or foodstamps (which should feed their kids) to use the money for cigarettes/booze.</p>
<p>You can’t sell a WIC voucher - never could. I suppose you could sell the forumla you buy with a WIC voucher - that would of course be illegal - the baby would go hungry and suffer. At the next monthly visit - the WIC nurse would see that the baby was not growing and an intervention would occur.
Perhaps since they are on WIC they are buying fewer cigarettes or candy or other offensive goods. It would be a stretch to compare buying cigarettes to meth. Lots of parents who smoke raise healthy kids - few parents who have a meth habit are capable of raising healthy kids.</p>
<p>So you are saying that parents who make $40,000/year and receive WIC should not have any disposable income? They should never rent a movie, take the kids mini golfing or even own a car? My whole point is - ‘we’ don’t get to decide how they spend their money.</p>
My husband works a second job in a supermarket. It’s huge and does big business. i was there recently and was shocked to see that the formula is locked up in glass cases just like the cigarettes. Apparently, it’s such a hot commodity that it’s one of the most stolen items in the store, and there is a huge problem here with bodegas selling expired formula that people trade for cigarettes and alcohol. I don’t know how much of that is purchased with WIC money, but I’d imagine some of it is. Which has nothing to do wtih this thread, I just didn’t realize how much of a black market in formula there is. (Back to the thread.)</p>
<p>*So you are saying that parents who make $40,000/year and receive WIC should not have any disposable income? They should never rent a movie, take the kids mini golfing or even own a car? *</p>
<p>You must have missed my earlier post…</p>
<p>*That said…everyone…everyone…needs an occasional splurge - just for their mental health! For my aunt (single mom raising 4 kids on her own), it was bowling with friends every other Tuesday (my mom gave her the money & would babysit). However, if my aunt had started going bowling everyday, my mom would have said something. *</p>
<p>Oh, and yes, people do sell the stuff that they get with WIC or Food Stamps…my sister is a director of a foster care agency, and she’s had to remove kids from homes where people sold their welfare-gotten food items to pay for drugs, cigarettes, and/or booze. Some people will let their kids go hungry in order to have crap for themselves.</p>
<p>Some people will let their kids go hungry in order to have crap for themselves.</p>
<p>My oldest volunteered at an elementary school with extra supports for homeless families when she was 18 with Americorps. She became quite close to some of them, and it was a blow to her that when a couple of the kids, who had been living in a shelter and attending school, were pulled out of school and the shelter by their mother, who had relapsed and was selling their own medications to get drugs for herself, and they were living underneath a bridge.
:(</p>
<p>I guess because my extended family is heavily involved in the foster care system - my sis is a director, my brother and other sis are foster parents, my brother adopted a foster child, and my H and I have tried to adopt a little girl, but the parents refused to give up their rights. </p>
<p>In many cases these kids (mostly tiny ones ) have been removed from homes due to negligence and/or “failure to thrive” (heartbreak to see my sis’ foster twins who were 18 months old, yet were the size of 6 month olds). These kids’ mom had been abusing the welfare system (selling welfare gotten goods)…it was sickening. Of course, many/most don’t abuse it. But, when you see the results of such abuse (unfed kids), it makes you ill.</p>
<p>Again, most who receive aid aren’t like that.</p>
<p>oh that is so hard I know- .
One couple a few houses away when our girls were growing up, were foster parents, and tried to support the kids long term.</p>
<p>Even though we weren’t the ones caring for them, it was tragic watching the kids do well at the foster home, while a parent was in rehab, but then have to leave when they got out/quit, but then come back again when they relapsed.</p>
<p>They really wanted to adopt a couple of the kids, but they generally were not released by the system until they had gone through the cycle so much that they were traumatized.
They eventually moved way out to a more rural area, where they could build a much bigger house so they could care for more kids- I know that some foster parents aren’t that great- but these were really good people, with a lot of patience and love for these kids.</p>
<p>You can buy any food item except food that is hot when you buy it, or food that is sold to be eaten in the store like restaurant food. Eligible food items include:</p>
<p>any food products or ingredients used to prepare meals at home
cold prepared sandwiches, salads, and other deli items
ethnic and health foods
snack foods, candy, soda, and ice
You can buy seeds or plants that you will grow to produce food for your household.</p>
<p>You can buy locally grown food at farmers’ markets (if the markets have EBT equipment).</p>
<p>You cannot buy non-food items like liquor, cigarettes, vitamins or medicines, pet foods, soap, cosmetics, laundry products, paper goods, or other household products.</p>
<p>If you are elderly or disabled, you can use your SNAP food stamps to pay for approved home-delivered meals such as Meals on Wheels, or for meals at senior housing, Dining Centers, or other group meals.</p>
right. so don’t lump the majority into the minority.</p>
<p>simba - The requirements for WIC are completely different from the requirements for food stamps.
The people who receive the benefits don’t make the rules. You may not like certain government programs or you may not like some government programs - but don’t attack people who are following the rules. College age kids who have parents who make $40,000/year will qualify for a Pell Grant of over $5000/year. WIC is much cheaper. WIC allows these kids to grow up and qualify for Pell Grants.</p>
<p>I’m not surprised baby formula has become such a commodity on the black market. I suffered sticker shock when we began to feed formula to Lake Jr. Our pediatrician used to joke that he urged his middle class clients to scour magazine and supermarket bulletin boards for disount coupons for brand name baby formula. It’s sad but no surprise that neglegent parents on WIC are trading baby forumula for cash and or drugs/cigarettes.</p>
<p>I got food stamps for a month or two when I was a student before I was married a long time ago.
It really sucked- because I had very little income, yet because my grandparents had paid for half of my car ( because they wanted it to be safe, it was relatively new- but basic), I had to lie about the worth of it, because if you have a car that ran more than it was broken down, then you needed to sell it to buy food, before you could get food stamps.</p>
<p>I did it once, but I couldn’t do it again and I couldn’t sell my car, so I quit getting the food stamps ( and that was before food banks were very available)</p>
<p>It does sound like they have dropped the car assessment to qualify but the income level to qualify for food stamps five years ago, was only $28,666 for a family of five.</p>
<p>Our family- at times- lived on the border that was too much to qualify for any govt aid, ( and we were working full time), but we didn’t make enough to pay for the things we needed.</p>
<p>I know it would be a PITA- but especially with young children, I wish they had more of a sliding scale of coverage.</p>
<p>right. so don’t lump the majority into the minority.</p>
<p>I don’t…and haven’t.</p>
<p>I spoke of two types of incidents…chain-smokers who can find the money to pay $60+ for cartons of cigarettes, but can’t seem to pay for milk and cereal for their kids…shameful! And, people who sell items gained with welfare dollars to support their own selfish needs. </p>
<p>That is hardly lumping the minority into the majority…unless the majority are chain-smokers. I wasn’t thinking that.</p>
<p>I’ve gotten WIC, and I’ve gotten food stamps. I wanted to comment on both and several things in this thread. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>The point of WIC is to put healthy foods into households where nursing or pregnant women, children and infants are at high risk for not getting sufficient nutrition. Because of this, WIC is <em>especially</em> important if parents are spending money on cigarettes, etc. The point of the vouchers, which are very specific about what foods can be purchased, is that if you can get at least some nutritional food in the home, the at-risk residents will be more likely to get better fed. Remember that the healthcare for the child of the chain smokers is probably from your tax dollars, too – and a healthier child is less likely to need medical care. The more irresponsible the spending choices of the household, the more important and useful WIC is. You can’t use WIC vouchers for anything except relatively healthy foods – beans, juice, milk, eggs, fortified cereals, or formula if you don’t breastfeed. (Mothers who are breastfeeding get the healthy food vouchers.)</p></li>
<li><p>Unfortunately, it’s a fact of American culture that for the most part, we assume that people who are poor somehow deserve it, that they have habits of mind or body that made them poor or keep them that way. As a result, I think it’s endemic to our culture, this public and private judgement of the actions of people we percieve as poor, and particularly as poor and using “our tax dollars”. So often I read on CC “if they only X, they would be better off” – but we cannot know the circumstances of the people around us, we don’t know what goes on in their lives, in their heads, and in their hearts. </p></li>
<li><p>Folks, healthy food is expensive. Farmers markets usually don’t accept SNAP (food stamps). Further, on a calorie by calorie basis, “bad” foods – junk foods, processed foods – are cheaper per calorie. Processed foods also tend to require less preparation, which is important, because many less expensive living accommodations don’t have the amenities you take for granted in your kitchens. </p></li>
<li><p>Happiness is not a commodity that only the middle class or weathy deserve. Good lord, if your life is horrible – and when I was on food stamps, it was – you need what we call “sanity spending” in our household more than ever. That’s the sort of small purchases that keep you going, that keep you from feeling like life is always going to be rice and beans, or ramen, or mac and cheese, or ground beef. (Hah! I remember when we got wealthy enough to be able to eat meat regularly – ground beef, every day. To this day, I mostly hate the stuff, because I spent years having that be the only meat we could ever afford – that and chicken legs on sale.)</p></li>
</ol>
</p>