i will say several of the kids we know who’ve gone to small NAIA and D2 and D3 schools did not stick with their sport. It wasnt quite what they expected. Some transferred to larger schools, some stayed there, some did all four years. I do think education for these kids trumps the sport for the families; i think these small schools do provide a carrot to get kids to go there.
I share your misgivings about the OP’s willingness to indulge the child’s fantasy of a very expensive 4-year soccer camp. We have made it clear to our kids that college is about an education and preparing for a career. Period. We are not paying thousands of dollars so our kids can have a four year vacation. That said, after establishing the priority of academics first, we encourage our kids to do extracurriculars (including sports) in college to make their lives full and enjoyable.
If this were my child, I would set aside the soccer recruiting question for a bit and focus on the ultimate career goal and how college might fit into that. If the kid wants soccer as a career, that’s great! There are opportunities for that. What about a high school teacher that is also the h.s. soccer coach? If that appeals, then look at what subject the kid might want to major in to teach h.s. and how to find college with a good teacher certification program and men’s soccer team. If the kid wants to work in professional soccer, what about a business degree in sports management with an internship at USMNT? If that appeals, start looking for colleges with this business program (and men’s soccer). Does he like writing? Sports journalism! You get the idea…
What I would not do is indulge the idea that college is about soccer (especially when the kid is not an elite player). To my mind, college should be about getting an education and preparing for a career in the real world.
Finally, if the kid is adamant he doesn’t want to go to college, just let that be. He will see all his friends heading off to exciting futures in 2 years while he has no plan and I suspect he will right the ship on his own. I know one kid whose parents took this approach with a kid reluctant about college. After one year of working a menial job and living at home, the kid became the most motivated, engaged student ever to set foot on a college campus. Went from community college to T50 to Ivy League law degree.
Good luck!
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We all know that there are many schools with low admission thresholds at all levels. That goes without saying. My comment was in the context of the OPs central question, which is whether he can find coaches who will be sympathetic to his issue of needing a roster spot to cajole his kid to attend college. And, beyond that point, I doubt this parent, who views his son as more academically capable than his Northwestern sibling, is going to be interested in sending his kid to a school that isn’t going to even ask about his grades.
I have been through this process. This idea that anyone who played in high school or who participated in club soccer can be recruited to “small schools” is simply off the mark and highly misleading. And frankly a little insulting to the kids who have managed to pull it off. There is a fair amount involved, starting with getting a coach to pick you among the legion of players who are sending him:her emails and who are playing in front of him:her at player tournaments.
All that aside, it would be best to stick to the OP’s question and not turn this into a D3 trashing thread.
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OPs question could also be understood as: could a coach who’s interested in my son tell him straight up he could be interested but only if his grades were in the B+/A- range?
OP could hope that’s all his son would need to bring his grades up.
I don’t think there will be coaches on this wavelength but you never know.
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That’s not my take on the question, but coaches do say that. More often in the form of “I would like to make you an offer but can only do so if you surpass xxxx SAT score.”
OPs average is unlikely to swing much this late in the game, though some will look favorably on an upward trend even if the GPA doesn’t change much.
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Something that could help with academic motivation could be attending a recruiting camp, preferably one which has coaches from a variety of schools. At least in my kid’s experience, every camp, whether school-specific or a broader camp, had a session where coaches talked about recruiting process, expectations and kids heard something like – “you can all play soccer, what matters now is your grades as we are looking for players who can manage academics and athletics.” Hearing it from another adult rather than parents can help get through the teenaged (male) brain fog.
Edited to add – as a rising junior, this summer is a good time to explore recruiting camps for schools which are not targets because performing at camps, in the heat, with the competition and long days of training, is an adjustment and having some “throwaway” experiences before it really matters is helpful.
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Agree completely.
Agree as well. My comment was brought up as a reply to others posting links on articles regarding % of HS athletes and/or probability of playing a sport in college; which was not the OPs question.
Also gives the kid and parents a much better idea of their relative level of play. “Potential to play small school D3” is not saying a lot.
Both my kids attended Stanford camps. It was pretty clear that big time D1 was way out of their league both in terms of physicality and skill. Going to “academic” camps we could easily see the stratifications, often just in the warmups as to both athleticism and basic skills. Saw a lot of kids who may be fine in their small competitive set but were obviously outclassed by others. It’s also the best way to get looks and feedback from real coaches.
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A guy I work with has a son who was in a similar sort of situation when the son was in 11th and 12th grade. Kid wasn’t especially motivated about anything other than going out with his girlfriend and playing video games. Grades were adequate, but nothing to write home about. Flitted from 1 part time job to another…4 or 5 of them, in fact, over the course of about a year and a half.
Coworker & his wife told their son basically, “Hey, we can pay $X per year for college, but we’re not making that investment if it’s going to be a 4 yr party for you.”
BTW, I’m not saying that this is the same situation as the OP’s son. this is maybe a parallel example on similar end of the “Who’s ready for college” spectrum.
After HS graduation, the kid decided maybe he wanted to become an HVAC technician. Changed his mind. Then decided maybe he’d try community college. Tried that for a semester, changed his mind. Meanwhile, the kid’s girlfriend had gone off to college. All of his friends went off to college. And then reality set in. All of his best buds from HS were starting to move on and there he was, still living at home and, frankly, being a bump on a log delivering pizzas 20 hr a week.
He ended up deciding to enlist in the Air Force. Went off to boot camp. Loves it. Has done a total 180. Figured himself out. Has gainful employment and is no longer basically doing 13th grade. Coworker’s son pretty much DID ‘screw around and find out.’ Found out that screwing around gets old after awhile once everybody else has moved on.
Coworker said his son basically needed that little bit of time post-HS to “figure it out and get his act together.”
Will a D3 soccer coach be willing to give the OP’s son a spot on a team in order to motivate the kid to actually GO to college? It depends. But if I was a betting person, my bet would be a “No” from that coach. A lot of D3 colleges do holistic admissions and they often will want to know what is it about the college that makes you really want to attend…and it needs to be something other than “So I can play soccer because my parents want me to go to college, but I don’t want to go to college and I told them that the only reason I’ll go to college is so I can play soccer.”
If playing soccer is truly the ONLY reason why somebody says they’ll attend college, then I think that maybe that person isn’t ready for college yet.
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I know a student with strong enough academics to be admitted to Whitman who is still primarily focused on his sport. Keeping his grades up to remain eligible to play is a big motivator. So in some cases, the sport can boost the academics, but I don’t think there is much coach hand-holding.
That said, I do think there is often SOME place to play if soccer is the priority. My child played with teammates who were not D1 level, but received offers from places like:
D2 - University of Mary, North Dakota; Montana State Billings; Adams State in Colorado; Colorado Mesa; Western Oregon; Seattle Pacific
D3 - Chapman; Grinnell; St Olaf; Whitman; Willamette; St Catherine/St John in Minnesota (these players all had stronger academic resumes)
NAIA - Benedictine College in Kansas; Evergreen State College; Southern Oregon; Warner Pacific; University of South Carolina Beaufort (now D2); Embry Riddle in Arizona
Several also played for community colleges, then transferred.
But if playing somewhere/anywhere is of utmost importance, then lots of effort needs to go into making those coach connections, sending out video, and going to showcases.
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Of those D2s, the one I know is Seattle Pacific. You need to be a pretty strong soccer player to be recruited there, men or women. That’s definitely not a “if you played HS you can play there” place. Not by a long shot.
Chapman is a challenging D3 option as well. I would score Willamette, too, as a place that’s looking for more than “I played on my varsity HS team”. We had several players in our club wind up at both and all were very strong and athletic players who landed on one or another all-conference team (to the extent they played HS at all; some didn’t per the club’s preference). Whitman is less challenging from an athletic standpoint (based IMO on who they can hope to recruit) but as you say there is a higher academic hurdle there. Obviously same with Grinnell.
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American players are also feeling the effect of international players coming to the U.S. for soccer. Here’s an NCAA link to the 2021-22 stats. It’s become even more prevalent since then. They attend D3 schools as well. Pick a roster from a college you know and count the internationals. There aren’t enough spots for every player to progress to college soccer, so coaches want known quantities that will work to improve and stay all 4 years.
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Yes, I didn’t mean to suggest anyone who played high school soccer could receive an offer from any of those places. I just meant to show there is a wide range of schools for non-D1 players. My child’s high school teammates who went on to play college soccer all played different levels of club soccer in addition to high school soccer, but not all played at the very highest levels of club soccer. I would say all were starters on their teams and, if not on ECNL club teams, they still played on teams that won state championships, etc. That said, not all of the players who went on to play at college were the stand-outs and superstars.
Some colleges are more competitive than others athletically. Some are more competitive academically. For instance, it may be easier to land a playing spot at a school that draws less interest overall because it is in a more remote area and/or has a smaller student body and fewer majors and/or has a strong religious component that would not appeal to all applicants.
Of course, getting a spot on a team is one thing; playing is another. Some of the recruited players we know have seen very little playing time at college so far. So that is another consideration.
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Thanks for the link to those Massey Ratings @cinnamon1212.
It’s really interesting to see the list of all the teams that are ranked 300 or lower: Allegheny, Wentworth, Earlham, Purchase, Beloit, UMN Morris, Pratt, City College, University of Dallas, Sarah Lawrence, Hunter College, Lawrence. Schools with some really quality academic programs there.
It seems that OP’s kid may have plenty of options to choose from even as a B student. This may be especially so as a student who presumably tests high, is full pay, and is male.
I don’t think it’s so crazy to think that there would be coaches who see their role (at least in part) as helping less-motivated students find a reason to get excited about college. I mean it’s no secret that all but the top LACs have been struggling for enrollment lately and that they use sports as a way to increase student recruitment and retention, especially for male students.
Decent student, OK athlete, nice kid, invested parents, full pay…what’s not to like?
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This is the OP’s question. Putting it here, as there’s been a lot between that question and here, to re-focus on actual needs and goals! It’s really about what should be disclosed to a coach in the process.
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My answer, don’t disclose any motivation issues to any coach, ever.
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Maybe not when initially contacting coaches, but I don’t think you have to hide it either. This is a kid who is going to get into most of the schools I have listed above on his own academic merits (B grades plus presumably good test scores.) Heck, even without the test scores to most of these schools. So he finds some he likes and he and his family visit campus and as part of that meet with the coach. Parent says “Jimmy is a smart kid, but a bit of a late bloomer. The one thing that has always served to teach him motivation and discipline has been soccer. To be honest, potentially playing in college is the thing that excites him most about college. I know his level of play isn’t tippy top, but level with me --would your program have a place for him on the roster? If not as a recruit, as a walk on? I can tell you that we are really supportive and invested parents, and Little Jimmy is a nice kid who will work hard on your team.”
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Agree 100%. What the parents consider “he needs a little push sometimes to stay motivated” the coach may actually be hearing 'kids performance is uneven". Kid says “I’m only interested in your college so I can continue to play soccer” and coach hears “Maybe I’ll flake out after the first semester”.
Play to the kid’s strengths.
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Generally, parents shouldn’t be talking with coaches, even on visits. My advice is parents can stay if invited by the coach and even then shouldn’t be speaking.
I would not recommend a parent talk about level of play, or ask for a walk on spot…it is up to the student to be talking about how and where they might fit on the roster, etc. Not for the parent to ask, really ever.
It is ok for parents to talk to the coach near the end of the process to verify they understand everything, and always ok for parents to talk with the coach and school about money and financial aid (typically at the end of the process.)
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You lost me at “Parent says.”
We never spoke with a single coach until a roster spot was offered.
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