<p>I guess this is another of those circumstances where diifferent people can interpret the same response differently. YOr post
sounds like you are responding as if the question was asked of you, and you responded, ending with “thanks for asking”. Seems a good example of the situation where the same question can be read differently by different folks. </p>
<p>Really must attend to other matters, but this has been an interesting discussion. </p>
<p>As an aside-- speaking of grey areas and morality, one of my relatives with a TS clearance has had challenges with poor financial management. Used to mooch off an elderly relative because, well of course he/she couldnt risk having to declare bankrupcy or apply for consumer credit counseling becuase it could potentially cause risk to the TS clearance, as he/she might be seen as potentially bribable. Thats a sorry excuse to mooch $$$ off an elderly relative if you ask me.</p>
In some cases the charges get thrown out before they make to to the conviction stage. There have been the publicized cases of the kid bringing a plastic knife to school, or having a chain attached to their wallet or letting a kid having a severe asthma attack use their inhaler, or bringing a teacher a gift of a rum cake (dumb prent choice!!) or what have you that has led to suspension and/or criminal charges. But if the charges weredropped/ thrown out and not pursued, and the arrest expunged, then what? I think there is more than one answer to this question, though others clearly agree.</p>
<p>I have followed the discussion with great interest and appreciate the thoughtful analysis provided by so many. However, the focus of my original post was whether the suspension, assuming it’s reported, would negatively impact merit aid awards. I’m afraid it will. I have appreciated the several PMs that assured me in some instances it did not. I would really appreciate anyone else in similar circumstances sharing their experience and outcome. Also appreciated would be any advice on how to best handle the issue with schools my child is applying to and what if anything we should ask GC to do. We are now two weeks post-prom and it still feels like a huge, overwhelming mistake to my child and we are just trying to put the pieces back together. Thanks.</p>
<p>I agree with you completely…which is why I would’ve encouraged this person to come clean, get help for their financial management issues, and accept the consequences of that. If it means they lose their TS…then so be it. It’s certainly not a better option to mooch off the elderly relative and cover up their FM issues, because that still leaves them in the vulnerable position that was the concern reference the security clearance.</p>
<p>I am sorry you and your daughter are in this situation, sticker, and please accept my best wishes for as positive an outcome as is possible. It does make me wonder – what if this had happened to a HS senior who had already been accepted to college with merit $$? If the student was suspended for being drunk at senior prom, would the school and the student have to update the college?</p>
You are preaching to the choir on this one. We and other family members have repeatedly tried to get this person to address their fiscal irresponsibility, even to the degree that we offered to pay for a consultation with a financial manager for this family member. Nope- they declined the invitation, and in fact were offended and incensed. How dare we. And would they dare risk their clearance and job security? Not in a million years. These are, sadly, some of our government employees at work :(</p>
<p>My child also is on the bubble for National merit Semifinalist designation. Can I also assume this suspension could keep her from getting finalist designation? Ugh. The kicks keep on coming. What a bitterly tough lesson.</p>
<p>Sticker…Although very dated, I can tell you first hand that youthful indiscretions won’t automatically impact merit scholarships. My 4-year scholarship was initially delayed because I truthfully answered a question regarding a poor decision I made as a pre-HS student which ended up with me being taken to the local police station to be “scared straight”. And let me tell you…it was EFFECTIVE!!</p>
<p>I don’t think there was ever any official documentation done, and if there had been I can only assume it would’ve been sealed. But when asked the direct question on the scholarship app, I responded truthfully regardless. I didn’t want to take any chances that it might come to light if I didn’t admit it.</p>
<p>I got a letter stating my scholarship was temporarily on hold until the investigation was completed. A simple explanation of the circumstances and the matter was cleared up, and the scholarship was granted. These universities aren’t looking for perfect people, but I sincerely believe they are looking for young adults with character. No one on either side of this discussion can guarantee you whether it will or won’t have an adverse effect on a merit scholarship, because each school/each scholarship is going to view it differently. This sounds like an isolated incident of drinking, and as such it’s a youthful indiscretion and I believe will be viewed as such by nearly all universities and won’t affect your D’s chances at admission or merit money. </p>
<p>My recommendation is to ask yourself this. If you/she disclose, what is the worst thing that could happen? She might be denied a scholarship or admission at a particular school. There are probably plenty of other schools that would love to have her, and will offer her just as much. If you/she choose to not disclose, regardless of what her HS’s policy on disclosure is, and it is eventually discovered (slim of a chance as that might be) what do you think the outcome would be? There will be anxious moments no matter what, but only you can decide which source of angst you would rather deal with. Good Luck!!</p>
<p>ETA: NMSC does consider disciplinary issues in their consideration for advancement to Finalist. I understand the difficulty facing you and your D. Depending on which path you choose and how the state cutoffs shake out, you could have a prime topic for her essay if she chooses.</p>
<p>Oh sticker. So sorry. It may not negatively impact the NM status, as if she makes it to NMSF whe will have to write an essay (some posters here might suggest she address it there) and the HS administration has to fill out their part of the application endorsement. They seem to focuse on academic consistency. You can read here <a href=“http://www.nationalmerit.org/Merit_R&I_Leaflet.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nationalmerit.org/Merit_R&I_Leaflet.pdf</a> Now, if she became an axe murderer or something, there might be greater reason for concern.</p>
<p>Wolverine-
If you’d like to volunteer to try to talk some sense into this relative and get him/her to address their financial poor decision-making and mismanagement, I’ll happily put you in touch with them. Good luck!!!</p>
<p>I had to go run errors but my answer is for exactly the reason we are discussing here. Because a human being is going to read that student’s application and clearly human beings don’t agree on what is important or not important. Can you not imagine a person for instance is going to give props to the student who checks the yes box…but can you not imagine that that very same person would still pick the kid with no blemishes because they have a very strong opinion on right and wrong and so while the person might have gotten a positive tick mark for checking the yes box for being “honest” in their opinion, that same student could get a demerit because the reader can’t get past the response, their judgement is clouded by their own personal feelings and their belief structure. I believe that taking that off the table for both the applicant and the college under the right circumstances is sometimes the best route to an outcome for BOTH parties. I feel the same way about students with LDs or other disabilities and judging by threads on this discussion board people are conflicted about that decision…fortunately it’s not a question on the common app and generally something a high school chooses to disclose or NOT disclose after conversations with the student. Error of omission…I think not.</p>
<p>And your argument makes sense. Unfortunately, the question is on the Common App and, for that reason, needs to be answered.</p>
<p>Although I guess a kid could state that he or she refuses to answer the question, for all of the reasons just stated. I wonder how that would fly . . .</p>
<p>mom…Please re-read the post where I asked you the question about HS disclosure policies. It wasn’t an instance where the interpretation of “responsibility” was in question. 2 students with identical records, including the same infraction, guilty as charged, and punishment served. One HS policy is full disclosure, the other is no disclosure. Let’s assume their Apps are being viewed by the same Adcom. Your position is that if the HS isn’t going to report it, the student ought to follow their lead. The Common App directly asks the question, and student 2 fails to disclose (i.e. lie of omission) not because it’s not factually true but because his/her HS told them they wouldn’t disclose.</p>
<p>Maybe the truthful disclosure positively/negatively affects student 1…maybe it doesn’t. Maybe student 2’s lie of omission is discovered…maybe it isn’t. Who knows? But in any case, how can you justify the policy of EITHER HS (neither one of which should in ANY way factor into the admissions decision between a student and a university) causing 2 IDENTICAL students to be viewed differently?</p>
<p>If anything were to be removed from the Common App, I’d favor the HS GC response being removed. That’s where differences in policy leads to ambiguity in their responses. Neither student in this case has a leg to stand on answering “No”.</p>
<p>This thread and the prior thread noted in it, and I believe a follow up thread, note one family’s experience with a similar (but not identical) issue post acceptance to college.</p>
<p>I am still trying to understand how any school could call police for a dress code violation (as noted in some posts above). How does dress become criminal? Disorderly persons? Lewd behavior? How can improper dress be compared to Minor in Possession or similar laws against underage drinking? This is off topic, so no real response is required.</p>
<p>I personally do not thing good things come out of “gangs” as I believe Dodgersmom refers to them. However, I can see how it can be against school rules to show up with dress indicating membership in a gang or He;;s angels or whatever similar thing, but do these types of dress indicate incitement to riot or hate crimes or some other thing that would be actionable criminally? Naturally, I can imagine some scenario where it would be, but then it has become more than “merely” a dress code violation. I think the “failure to obey” can mean many things - i.e. a no collar shirt where a collar is required, which would not be grounds for a police report at least in places that I am familiar with.</p>
<p>At least the OP’s kid only got suspended for the violation, not expelled, if it is any comfort.</p>