<p>I’ll buy your argument that you’re not familiar with medical school admissions committees. It shows. What undergraduate adcoms know about Williams has no relevance whatsoever to this discussion, since no one with a degree from Williams would want to apply to college.</p>
<p>I accept that you may have some familiarity with Podunk Us. Even there, Williams is pretty well known (even if it occasionally gets confused with Whitman). And even at Podunk Us, adcoms do read USN&WR rankings, don’t they. They don’t have to go far down the list to see the name of Williams.</p>
<p>So let’s get this discussion back on track, which has to do with a candidate with a 3.6 GPA from the top LAC in the country (or perhaps #2, as Williams and Swarthmore seem to trade places with some regularity) who was rejected from UMass-Medical.</p>
<p>This is ridiculous. The fact that this student didn’t get has nothing to do with the fact that they went to Williams or they didn’t. </p>
<p>It’s also a pretty frequent occurrence that someone who is more than qualified for medical school doesn’t get accepted. That’s just the name of the game. I’ve seen students who did every thing right, then bomb their interview. I’ve had friends get accepted to some very highly thought of state public medical schools as out of state students, but then get rejected at their home state school as an in-state student (where they should have had the best chance).</p>
<p>State medical schools particularly don’t give the top LACs enough credibility, they come from a different world. Top Private med schools, on the other hand, give top LACs like Williams a significant boost. Top MBA and Law schools love LAC applicants, and they tend to do very well.</p>
<p>As Bigred said, there is nothing interesting about a student with a 3.6 being rejected from a particular medical school. Happens all the time. Most medical schools reject the majority of 3.6 students who apply. There need not have been anything “wrong” with his application. A Williams 3.6, with an otherwise decent application, should have an excellent chance of getting in SOMEWHERE, but a low chance of getting into any one particular school.</p>
<p>Medical school admissions are very competitive, and that definitely includes UMass. As noted, Amherst considers a much lower GPA well qualified for admission to medical school somewhere, but does not offer an opinion on what is required to get into a particular medical school. It is just far too competitive for that. </p>
<p>The only intriguing part of the post is the claimed grade adjustment of Williams vs Harvard. If it is not due to the A+ issue, then it was just misinformation by the interviewer. Unlike college, medical school admissions committees are made up of faculty, not admissions professionals. The faculty members spend most of their time on other things. They bring with them whatever preconceptions about different colleges they may hold. The admissions decisions are not made by a single individual, but by a committee, with all its associated unpredictability and frustrations. Even if this student encountered a die hard Harvard ■■■■■ who really meant that H’s standards were that much higher than W, it would have made little difference in the admissions likelihood.</p>
<p>Here are the data for UChicago. The rate was indeed greater, but it looks as though the starting point was lower as well.One may want to track down the Stuart Rojstaczer report for information on other colleges.
<p>I ran some Yale grad.alum law school admissions stats through a law admissions “estimator” sponsored by the ABA. It takes LSAT score + gpa and estimated the probability of admissions to all accredited law schools. In 2006 Yale published the median LSAT scores/median gpa/% admits of its law school applicants.</p>
<p>The actual % admits for Yale grads was significantly higher than that predicted by the ABA estimator. Thus it would seem that merely attending Yale gives its grads a noticable advantage within law school adcoms. I have no reason to doubt that the same is true for med school admits. I didn’t do any testing of the estimator but I assume that Eli’s get a 0.20 gpa edge against the typical applicant.</p>
<p>I know. This goes against the conventional wisdom of my many posts here but “facts” do matter.</p>
<p>Much has been speculated about the ignorance of the interview committee at UMass Medical School. FIrst off we don’t know if the above quote is completely accurate and if it was said by a committee member or another applicant the student met in the elevator. Secondly, I know several members of the interview committee for UMass Med school and they are all graduates of Ivy League schools. They also all have college age kids and would be thrilled if any of their kids could have gotten into Williams.</p>
<p>originaloog, could it be possible that the estimator simply estimates a little low, for the sake of erring on the side of caution? While I would imagine that that estimater is a lot more mathematical than the ones you can find for undergrad, even the most sound estimators are just that–estimators. I would imagine that a Yale GPA could command relatively more clout than X Average University’s same GPA, but I don’t know that the estimator proves that. Just sayin’.</p>
<p>jrpar, thanks for referencing that post/thread that lists the adjustment factors. It isn’t the same chart that I saw, but the gist is the same. </p>
<p>I don’t have any basis to make a grading comparison between Williams and Harvard, but my impression is that Williams grades are definitely DEflated compared to many other colleges. The first year curves are especially steep.</p>
<p>OP- All I know is the the kid from Williams, while going through the process at UMass Medical, had his Williams GPA dumbed down by having it compared to a Harvard GPA. Post #71 says the following:
“I know several members of the interview committee for UMass Med school and they are all graduates of Ivy League schools.”
Now, doesn’t it stand to reason that a bunch of Ivy League types seeking to bolster the reputation of thier med school would grab as many Ivy types as possible? My understanding is UMass Med. IS trying to climb the med school ranking list… is there any better way to do it that admitting as many HYP types as possible? Come on folks. If you’ve got a H, a Y, and a P sitting there is it all that impossible they might look down thier noses at a former HYP wanna be (from Williams) while waiting for the next Ivy type to show?</p>
<p>No, Nightingale, it does not make sense. You are dealing with conspracy theories. It would only make sense if every single member of the admissions committee was from Harvard and never had kid going anywhere but Harvard. And even then, it would be libelous.</p>
<p>There is no solidarity between Harvard, Yale and Princeton, and scads of Harvard profs send their kids to LACs–including Williams. Harvard graduate programs very readily admit Williams grads. There’s a very healthy respect for Williams, Swarthmore, Amherst and various other LACs at HYP.</p>
<p>Yes. In my understanding, med school reputations are based mostly on faculty quality in teaching & research. Even the “selectivity” component of the rankings would depend more on MCATs and GPAs than what undergrad their students come from.</p>
<p>Wannabe? I have no dog in this fight, but I find such comments insulting. Come on, even HYP faculty acknowledge the intrinsic worth of LACs. Even those on adcoms at med schools.</p>
<p>There seem to be two intertwined issues in this thread. </p>
<p>One is that med school admission is clearly an incredibly difficult thing and the results not always easy to interpret. </p>
<p>The other is the misconception on the part of Nightingale and perhaps others that Williams and other LACs are places for “HYP wannabes.” As other posters and I have noted–and it bears repeating because people who are starting the college search really need to understand this–a good LAC is a destination in itself, it is not a second prize for students who didn’t get into Ivies, even specifically HYP. Some people prefer larger schools and some prefer smaller ones. It is not a matter of one being better OR easier to get into across the board.</p>
<p>You’re right Marite my last post #74 was far to cynical. Sorry about that. I know the kid so I’m disappointed for him. I’m sure he’ll get in somewhere. It is a long road and I respect everyone who endeavors to travel it…truly the best and the brightest.</p>
<p>I’m sure he will, too.<br>
I know a Harvard grad who graduated Phi Beta Kappa, summa cum laude, with a senior thesis which was deemed nearly publishable and got rejected by Harvard Medical School. I met a Med School dean shortly thereafter and he could not think why the student had been rejected. The student went to UCSF Med school.</p>