@“45 Percenter” said:
“Indeed. In fact, undergraduate research with professors and in their labs is a major component of the Penn ethos, and is institutionalized and facilitated at Penn through the Center for Undergraduate Research and Fellowships (CURF), and its undergraduate Research Directory and undergraduate research counseling services:”
Please, to all the the posters on this thread, let’s not misrepresent what undergraduate experience at a Penn Lab can mean. I’m friends with a few PIs (Principal Investigators - i.e. lab heads) at Penn, and make no mistake, their purpose is to churn out high level research. More than teaching, more than mentoring, they face pressure to generate research. Undergrads are the LEAST useful resource to aid in this endeavor. (Grad students are moderately useful, but slow, and post-docs are the most productive.)
This doesn’t mean that undergrads can’t have great, close relationships with prominent science faculty. What this does mean, though, is that the experiences can vary tremendously. I’ve known more than a few Penn PIs who, when asked to write a recommendation for an undergrad lab worker, farm the work out to a grad student or post-doc, and then simply sign the recommendation. They also farm the “babysitting” of undergrads out to post-docs, grad students, lab techs, etc. Some don’t of course, but don’t kid yourself - some definitely do.
@Much2learn said:
“All courses are taught by professors at Penn.”
Again, let’s not misrepresent this. Classes at Penn are LISTED as being taught by professors. In practice, busy faculty (especially on the science end) often farm the bulk of the teaching out to post-docs and grad students. The professor is listed as the course instructor, but that prof might not be doing the bulk of the teaching (and certainly not the bulk of the grading/feedback). As always, YMMV.
As I said earlier, if the OP WANTS a small elite LAC experience, Williams is the clear choice.
HOWEVER, if there’s any tension here, it’s this: The OP can make Penn feel smaller. The OP cannot make Williams feel larger. This essentially is the crux of the issue.