An obvious math aptitude is not wasted in a teaching or nursing career. In fact, I’ve known some really strong math minds in those careers, both of which I have pursued. Of course, I don’t recommend either career to people who would have no interest in them.
@Nrdsb4 Of course you are correct. Who wouldn’t want a math teacher or a nurse to have an obvious aptitude for math? My point is not that teaching or nursing would have been beneath me. It’s that the adults in my life saw no other choices for me.
Thank you for giving me the chance to clarify.
I’ll admit I enjoy when young lads/lasses thank me for explaining math to them as I teach. Unfortunately, many math teachers teach math by memorization instead of concept. I find concepts to be easier to understand and remember (correctly). So do many students.
A math brain is not wasted on teaching, but not all with math brains are designed to be teachers. I love working with high school aged kids. Many folks find working with any age kid (esp those who aren’t theirs) to be draining. H is a terrific engineer, but says he could never do my job. I understand completely. I’d be bored in his - and frustrated dealing with various gov’t offices. I have far more natural patience with kids who are learning things or relatively new to this planet than with adults who should already know better.
@88jm19
Clearly, you had a good outcome from being encouraged to enter STEM. But the 80’s may as well be a century ago compared to now. It’s not just encouragement now, there are huge financial incentives for women to enter STEM for politically-motivated reasons.
I am not the least bit threatened by women in STEM, or “competition.” It is sad to see a revolving door of women entering and leaving the profession because they hate it.
Interesting to hear that despite being in STEM, the profession you chose was teaching.
That’s a great question! Why aren’t they?
@OhiBro In what specific profession have you observed a revolving door of women leaving because they hate it?
You do understand that elementary, MS and HS teachers teach math and science, right?
BTW, it’s not just women who sometimes find engineering is not the right profession for them. A close friend became an engineer because of his parents’ insistence. He was miserable. After about 8 years with an engineering firm he returned to school, got his master’s in education and became a happy and very successful math teacher.
Hopefully, I’ve misunderstood. But are you suggesting we are suffering as a country by having too many stay-at-home moms?
Having don’t it I can say it can be much easier as a family for one parent to work 70 hours and the other 20, then both to work 35 hours. Much much easier.
@OhiBro Nope. Our country suffers because there is no path for parents to get back into the influential creative class jobs when they are ready. 60 hour a week jobs for dads are also not great for their kids.
Good point, thanks for clarifying. So what should that path look like?
Can we please, PLEASE stop recommending teaching as a career for mommies who want lots of time with their own children, and not for men and women who want to make a difference to their students?
First and foremost: if you haven’t taught for 2 or 3 years, you have no idea what it’s like to teach. I’ve given birth to 2 kids, but that doesn’t make me an OB-GYN. Having sat in a classroom as a student doesn’t give you the tiniest idea of what my job entails.
Oh,and for the record: I’ve been teaching since 19880, with a 5 year break when my kids were little. Somehow, July and August didn’t make up for the times when my kids had ear infections or stomach bugs and needed a parent at home. Being a teacher means being committed to being there for your students whenever possible, not putting in a few hours at school so you can rush home and leave the job at school until the next morning.
We’ve all had bad teachers-- the kind I keep reading about on this thread. The kind who leave at 3, who take no work home, who face no stress at all.
Can we talk about the stress of teaching? It’s not about the material, it’s not about presenting it, it’s not about public speaking. It’s not about having a persona that demands respect without having to act like a drill sargeant. Those are the basics that you learn your first few years, and you either become good at them or you leave the profession. The stresses of my job come from the fact that I’m acting in loco parentis. I’m treating each of the kids in those desks the way I would treat my own 3 kids. A few incidents from the past 2 months:
- Last week I had a senior girl have an anxiety attack during a major end of trimester exam. The proctor didn't notice the tears running down her face; I did when I walked into the room. I spoke to the AP and got permission not to count her exam in her report card grade.
- A few months ago the fire alarm went off in the middle of 6th period. No big deal, right? Except that I knew it was no drill-- it was freezing out, and it was a lunch period; we don't do fire drills during lunch periods. (That leaves 650 kids without time for lunch.) I had one girl on crutches in my 2nd floor classroom, and one boy who had left the room to go to the bathroom. I was stressed about ensuring that all my kids were accounted for.
- Speaking of the lunch periods, about 2 weeks ago I had one kid in my cafeteria duty take a "fake punch" at his friend. No big deal. Unless, of course, one kid sees it and yells "Fight." Then I have 650 kids rioting with 5 teachers in the room. I got to him and diffused it before it became a problem.
- A friend of mine confided a few weeks ago that she had had to call CPS on a parent. I can't share the details, but she didn't sleep for several days afterwards.
- I've been working with guidance on several of my kids who have 30+ absences. CPS has been called on one; and may very well end up being called on the other. Nope, attendance isn't my job beyond just reporting it every period. But these are my kids. One of those kids confided that she never wants to have kids; she doesn't want to screw up some other kid the way her dad screwed her up.
- Ever have a kid have a seizure in front of you? It happened to me, in my cafeteria duty a year or so ago. I've had kids pass out, kids have asthma attacks, pretty much you name it.
And the list goes on and on. Teaching is about caring for every single one of those kids as I would hope some other teacher is caring for mine.
Let’s start recommending teaching for those born teachers out there. The ones who can come up with 3 or 4 alternate explanations for a topic, for that kid who didn’t understand the first one. The ones who like kids. The ones who love their profession enough to set a high bar for their students, in terms of behavior, academic performance, and human charity. The ones who know their material, cold. The ones with the desire and ability to take advantage of those teachable moments while still covering the syllabus. The ones willing to give extra help to a kid they don’t know.
And lets, PLEASE, stop recommending it for people who can’t do math, who can’t write well, for people who want the vacations,
You want to make money without doing work? Buy a lotto ticket. Please don’t teach. Our kids deserve far, far better than you.
I think @ultimom’s post is extremely helpful, and I’d like to break it down a little.
EXACTLY!
I’m still in full agreement, and I believe most here would also agree that there’s no inherent reason that the mother should be the primary caregiver by default.
This is where it gets complicated. Yes, the (not necessarily female) primary caregiver is missing out on career opportunities, but the (not necessarily male) primary earner is missing out on much of the joys and opportunities of parenting. I write this in all seriousness, knowing full well that much “stay at home” work is drudgery, but also, having been an active father in my kids’ development, also knowing that parenting can be the most rewarding undertaking there is.
Every family needs to make their own best “reasonable compromise”. For DW and I that included live in nannies for many years when our kids were young. Still, I’m a little uncomfortable with the idea that society would be better off if we subcontracted child care out to the less intelligent/less educated in order to stem the brain drain that results when two highly educated people procreate and care for their own children.
I think this, from the article posted in the OP, bears repeating:
I’m in a town chock full of SAHMs who left high powered jobs with long hours to parent full time. Many later tried to get back into the job market but found that they couldn’t get jobs with anywhere the responsibility, challenge, or pay of the jobs they left. On the flip side are the parents (primarily men) who are working so much that their spouses essentially spend much of the time as single parents. Crazy long work weeks with little flexibility are not good for anyone, male or female.
Engineering (manufacturing, product R&D, etc).
It wasn’t my post, but I don’t think that’s what was intended.
Stay-at-home parents and those who choose less demanding (perhaps part-time) work during the years when their children need the most care are making an important contribution to their families’ well-being and by extension, that of the country.
But their ability to contribute to society in other ways suffers both during the active parenting years and also later on, when their children don’t need as much of their time. It may suffer to a greater extent than necessary.
Not the best analogy. You might go to the hospital on two days to give birth. In contrast, everyone goes to school for 13 years. A better analogy might be to compare students with a nurse with 10+ years of experience. The nurse might not have the full medical knowledge of a doctor, but has a very good idea of what it’s like to be a doctor.
Thanks for the correction. But you seem to have missed the larger point.
Sitting behind a desk as a student for 13 years does not give a person any idea of what it’s like to teach. Having had kids go through school does not give a person any idea of what it’s like to teach.
Having taught for several years is what gives a person an idea of what it’s like to teach. Period.
Teaching, done right, is not the low stress job you claimed it is in an earlier post. Teaching done poorly is low stress. Let’s not aspire to that though, and let’s not encourage the next generation of teachers do do so either.
@bjkmom, thank you for your post. Teaching is an honored profession and you have my respect. I do not believe, in any way, you have an “easy” or stress-free job and I’m sure others don’t either. I would also surmise that any of my kids would have been lucky to have you as their teacher.
Why should people who leave the work world for a few years expect to walk back into jobs with the responsibility, challenge and pay they had when they left? People on this thread seem to want everything – high powered, influential jobs with off the charts pay (people keep talking about how 100k is nearly part time work), and hours conducive to family life as well. I worked in corporate law for a few years. I don’t believe the grueling hours and stress was there because the partners were cruel. They worked the same, if not more than the associates. Its what the job demanded. Its WHY they had power and large incomes.
I very willingly left that world and the large income. I don’t feel that I was denied anything. I made a choice that was good for me and good for my family. The problem with this thread, and the article, is that they seem to equate contributing to society with having high powered, prestigious titles and ultra high salaries. Many people of both genders contribute in important and creative ways with decent hours and sacrifice titles and salary. Some work part time. Some work for non-profits doing important things. Some, like me, become self employed. Thats a fine choice and society isn’t losing anything.