Working (or failing to work) the Weighted Grade system

I haven’t read through much of thread, so I may be repeating comments. That said, class rank probably matters less than you expect at most selective colleges. At typical highly selective colleges, most admits do not even submit rank. For example, 29% of this year’s entering students submitted rank at Yale and Princeton, 35% submitted rank at Stanford, and Harvard says they do not consider rank in their admission process. The decreasing portion of students submitting rank has led to a decreasing general importance of rank at less selective colleges than HYPS as well. In the NACAC survey 20 years ago, 43% of colleges said rank was “considerable importance”, making it one of the most important criteria for admissions decisions. In the most recent free survey (2013), only 13% of colleges said rank was considerable importance, making it less important than almost all other major factors, even less than demonstrated interest. It’s probably even lower today.

When class rank is submitted, I wouldn’t assume that means applicants need to be val/sal, or similar at a selective colleges. They may be using it more to get a sense of the strength of academic program and grading system, when combined with the transcript. For example, a 3.7 GPA is more impressive with a top 2% rank than at a high school where a large number of students have a 4.0. If you look through the decisions threads of this site, you’ll see at most highly selective colleges it’s quite common for valedictorians to be rejected, and lower than val/sal to be accepted. When I applied to colleges several years ago, I had a 4.0 GPA in many university classes taken out of HS, which did not contribute to my HS class rank, but didn’t do as well in the HS classes that I found less interesting/challenging. So I had excellent course rigor and respectable overall grades when my HS classes were combined with college classes, but less than top 10% rank in my HS class. This was good enough to be accepted to Stanford, MIT, and ivies; even though most higher ranked students in my HS were rejected.

You asked how to communicate a student’s exceptionality. Selective colleges with a holistic emphasis are not searching for the pinnacle of top rank/stats among the tens of thousands of high stat applicants. They are often instead searching for students who are likely to make a positive impression on the college and world beyond. This can be communicated through various activities out of the classroom, such as pursuing a passion and doing something quite remarkable in that field. There are countless possibilities.

Exceptionality is shown in so many other ways than class rank. That is why it matters not to those tippy top schools.

" How have others communicated a student’s exceptionality in a situation like this? "

I expect the GC would mention this in the letter. While taking two classes in the same time would be tough, you should also be aware that the actual number of credits he’s earned isn’t at all exceptional at many schools. Many schools have an 8 period schedule and the kids take 8 classes.

Since joining College Confidential and reading similar posts, I have to say that I am very happy that my school neither weighted classes not ranked students.

Every student and his/her parent (s) should watch [url=<a href=“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZVxA0J5g28%5Dthis.%5B/url”>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZVxA0J5g28]this.[/url]

Just watched the first 50 seconds of that video. Had to stop before I became ill.

Personally, I can’t decide what’s harder to stomach - people who game the system to become valedictorian, or people who whine about not being valedictorian.

Either way, it’s just not that important.

I usually agree with your posts, but I somewhat disagree this time. Some parents (and students) think that rankings will matter to the schools they’re applying to (and it might at some schools), and I can’t disapprove of someone wanting fair treatment. So, I think it’s clearly harder to stomach the ones who approach education as something to be gamed.

If there are scholarships based on being valedictorian, then there is a huge incentive to care about it. The same goes for lesser ranks if admission or scholarship depends heavily on class rank (e.g. at Texas public universities).

Our high school eliminated class ranking several years ago for exactly this reason. The result seemed to be that more students gained admission to the most selective schools, or consideration for merit scholarships with class rank cut-offs.

Prior to that, the biggest complaints were that students taking unweighted electives, or who did not qualify to take honors/AP classes from the get-go, were being knocked out of the top 10%(sometimes the top 5%) of the class, and that these were being used as informal or even formal cut-offs by ad-coms at all sorts of schools, even though we are not in Texas.

I think “the game” can get tougher when some schools rank while other similar schools do not, and students do not get ample opportunity outside of GPA or class rank to demonstrate their mastery of the curriculum or capacity to go beyond. As others have pointed out, behavior that minimizes learning in order to inflate GPA does not end with the race for college admission.

In OP’s situation, though, I would go ahead and take the unweighted classes and trust the guidance counselor to explain the situation. For a student at the cusp of a rank cut-off, I would carefully consider the student’s college plans before making a decision.

Although my daughter’s HS technically did not rank (no rank on the transcript or provided to colleges), they has a val and sal and indicated the top 10 students in the commencement program (grad class was large). My daughter would have received a very nice scholarship (I think full tuition) from one of her acceptances had she been in the top 1% of her class. Although she made the top 10 she did not meet this cut (I had to call guidance and ask if she did or not). So, here is an example of her having taken 4 years of unweighted chorus having a financial effect. In the long run, this was not the best fit college for her and she ended up attending the best place for her.

Nobody has brought up the idea of using only the core classes in a GPA calculation (throwing out all electives). I believe I heard at least one college admissions person tell me that this was how they recalculated a weighted GPA for all their applicants (they ignored the ones the schools provided)

Having class ranking or not is totally 100% irrelevant. Why? Easy - colleges still know the class rank of the applicant based on the applicant GPA and HS class profile (they also do not take the HS reported weighted GPA, but rather strip it down and re-calculate). Every HS is obligated to provide a HS class profile. And com’n if you yourself see the class profile (normally on the HS website) and see that only one kid has HS unweighted GPA = 4.0 and you know that this kid took the most rigorous classes available, you do not need to be a genius to see the obvious that this kid is #1 despite the fact that HS is actually not ranking. You can call it whatever, colleges’ adcoms know what they are doing, they are aware about applicants’ standing in respective HS classes and they actually aware of some HS’s and what kind of HS graduates are coming out of them. All the games that some HS kids are trying to play to achieve some stats are just that - a game and complete waste of time instead of focusing on your personal interests and trying your best in every class and just have fun in HS. These kids are putting themselves thru misery and agony and possibly artificially created depression, for what? Tell your HS’er to enjoy his free life while it lasts, the college will roll with much greater responsibilities, but still find the way to enjoy it, then Grad. School, job, whatever. HS time is PRECIOUS!

@kiddie, I’m sorry to hear that, which is why I (tried to) preface my postings with the filter of holistic admissions. Unfortunately, the gaming will “work” at larger, by the numbers, schools. Still, in the end, a kid knows what a kid knows, and one can hope that it makes a difference down the line. It can be frustrating; I know I was frustrated that a grade-grubber got selected for Governor’s School.

It sounds as though the right outcome transpired for your D, so all’s well that ends well. :slight_smile:

" Easy - colleges still know the class rank of the applicant based on the applicant GPA and HS class profile". No, this is not true. Some schools are not reporting this at all. Even though ours does give the weighted GPA’s for certain percentile ranges, I don’t know what rank my daughter graduated with. I also don’t know how many kids had a 4.0 unweighted, but from looking at how high the weighted GPA ranges are, I know it must be a lot. I don’t know who the valedictorian(s) of my daughter’s class was. It’s not recognized by the school, although I assume that any student with the top average listed on the college sheet would know they are at the top if they looked at that sheet. It would be difficult to get into the top 10% without a 4.0. There is no information provided which would allow a college to take an unweighted GPA and strip out electives and make any comparisons to other students from our school. In any case, I’m sure all the kids applying to the top schools have 4.0 unweighted at our grade-inflated school. Our school hands out A’s for a 90, and doesn’t report the numerical grades. While this is a bit frustrating in some ways because the kids who really excel don’t stand out from the crowd of good honors students, I think it promotes a lot less stress and competition among the students. I wouldn’t want my kids to attend a school where students are numerically ranked and ultra-competitive to overtake the next kid, or where they are stressing about whether they got a 98 or a 97. Some of the posts I read from students at schools like that are just horrifying and I don’t see why adults would create this kind of atmosphere for our young people.

It is well known that the California public universities recalculate weighted GPAs their own way, using only academic courses (this includes art and music), but with capped to 8 semesters’ worth of weighting points, and “honors” courses in California high schools have to be approved as such by the universities to get the weighting points. This GPA is the most common one used in high school applicant and admit reporting by these schools, though UCs also calculate unweighted and uncapped weighted GPAs that are shown to holistic admission readers (CSUs are purely by the numbers using the weighted capped GPA).

https://secure.csumentor.edu/planning/high_school/gpa_calculator.asp
http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/files/csu-uc-a-g-comparison-matrix.pdf

They do not use what the high school reports as class rank at all. The “top 9%” for UC ELC is done by comparing the recalculated weighted capped GPA against a threshold set by previous classes’ top 9% recalculated weighted capped GPA.

Our California HS lists 5 GPAs on the transcript and that doesn’t even include the UC capped GPA, which I guess kids need to calculate. It’s a new data system, so I suspect they are working on adding the capped 10-11 GPA calculation or show it only after junior year. Our transcripts show:

– 10-12 Academic GPA Non-Weighted
– 9-12 Academic GPA Non-Weighted
– 9-12 Academic GPA Weighted
– 9-12 Total GPA Non-Weighted
– 9-12 Total GPA Weighted

Ranking is by 9-12 Academic GPA Weighted, so some electives are not included. However, music, art, and drama are a visual and performing arts (“f”) UC requirement, so they probably count as academic. PE, Health, “Freshman seminar”, student government, and career education are probably the things that don’t count as “academic”.

The school’s weighting is +1 for honors, AP, IB, and dual-enrollment classes. Some kids take their foreign language as dual-enrollment. This “games” the system since the 1st through 3rd years of the languages offered at the HS are non-honors. However, most of the kids I know who take DE foreign language are doing it so that they can take something like Japanese, Mandarin, or Arabic–not the easy way to a weighted grade. Kids may also take extra community college classes for weighted credit, even “easy” ones so long as they are CSU or UC transferable.

The UC and CSU systems give +1 for AP/IB/DE but usually not honors (PreCalc honors is generally a +1). However, they only allow a maximum of 8 +1 semesters for 10th-11th. So, one could “game” the capped GPA by taking the minimum number of required a-g courses; that would give you the smallest possible denominator. Kids who take extra academic classes end up with lower capped GPAs and potentially higher high school weighted GPAs. In fact, for the UC GPA, each college course (whether on a quarter or semester calendar) counts as two semesters of high school course work. So if you take a lot of college classes in high school, you can end up with a relatively low UC GPA. I suspect that many CA high schools have only a 6 period day as a way to game the capped GPA for their kids (and save money).

However, for UCs (but not CSUs) the capped GPA may just be used for a threshold that kids have to me in order to stay in consideration. According to an email I received from AskUC, “The UC capped GPA is used to determine if an applicant has met/exceed the minimum freshman admission requirements. During the admission review process all campuses can look at an unweighted GPA, a fully weighted GPA, and the capped GPA; course rigor is always reviewed across the spectrum of GPAs available for consideration.”

" Easy - colleges still know the class rank of the applicant based on the applicant GPA and HS class profile". No, this is not true. Some schools are not reporting this at all."

  • I can only tell what we have asked when we expressed our concern for D. being in Honors. Honors required to be in top 2% of the class. First, top 2% was not possible at all in her class of 33 student. The top person represented top 3%, while 2% is not even a full body in a class of 33. Secondly, D’s HS did not rank and it did not use weighted grades either, they did not name val’s, sal’s. We were told by the college adcom that in case like this, school is obligated to provide a class profile. And they understand perfectly that top 2% is not possible in class of 33. D’s class profile was published on the school’s website. It did not contain any names, it simply stated the percentage of certain GPA ranges. As percent of GPA 4.0uw was listed at approximately 3%, there was no guessing that only one person had GPA 4.0uw and this person is ranked #1, despite the fact that it is not really reported. So, when college see this profile and have an applicant from this HS who has GPA 4.0 uw, they know exactly that the kid was #1 in her class. They were also aware that school is ranked #2 in private schools of our state and does not give out As easily. Believe me, adcoms know much more than we think, it is their job…
  1. OP says that student takes 7 periods per day. Why so many? In D's HS school 6 periods is the norm.
  2. All weighted classes have prerequisites. Again, in D's HS, she has to take 3 years of art, before AP in Art. How is it possible to jump over prerequisites and get directly into AP classes?

@californiaaa - at my son’s school, there are 7 periods in the schedule. No one has the privilege of arriving late or dismissing early. Everyone is there for the full 7 periods.

@californiaaa

  1. Number of periods in the regular school day seems to vary by school from 6-8 (some schools on block schedule have 4 per semester). My theory is that there are more 6-period schools in California because of the oddities of the capped UC GPA. 6 periods is very limiting at my son's school where besides the math/English/science/soc studies/foreign language core, many kids are in an academy that has 1 class per year plus 2 years required PE & 1 semester health. The result is that no history/social studies is offered for 9th grade, few kids take more than 2 years of science, and many music/art/drama electives are starving for lack of students. 7 periods would be much better. (7 is possible if you take a 7 am class or an after-school sport, but they may force you to take study hall if you have "too many" APs.)
  2. Many schools weight honors classes, which do not generally have prerequisites. The IB art class can be taken at our school with no art prerequisite. (I don't think they offer AP art or music.) Our school does not have prerequisites other than the appropriate math for any of the AP sciences. DS will have taken AP Physics B, AP Chemistry, and AP Biology in that sequence in 9th-11th grade. Our school does not have prerequisites other than generally good grades in English for any of the AP history/gov't/econ classes.

My kids’ school has 7 classes in the schedule. No study halls and nobody leaves early. Courses taken outside of the school do not get counted in the weighted GPA used for ranking.

My high school had 8 classes back when I went there. I would guess it still does.

Honors and AP are weighted equally for my kids. Not all weighted classes have prerequisites.

@californiaaa, schools are different. Our high school had seven periods plus lunch plus an extra period reserved for the special arts program. If you participated in the program you got a special designation on your diploma. It was very popular even though you had to be at school by 7:30 am.

Most APs had pre-requisites, but it was possible sometimes to petition to get into a class without them. For example my older son took AP Comp Sci as a freshman. He talked to the teacher and showed her that he knew more than enough to start at that level.