<p>What does livability mean to me? Desirable climate, (obviously the definition of “desirable” can vary) good medical care, positive economic/industrial conditions for jobs, etc., easy access to transportation, green space, affordable real estate, cultural diversity/religious tolerance, choices related to education at all levels. I particularly like living near a college/university because of related cultural and athletic activities. For me, big cities aren’t desirable but access to city amenities is desirable.</p>
<p>If you live in NYC you know the neighborhoods that are not crowded, noisy, dirty, etc. You also know your local (not chain) coffee guy, diner, restaurant, dry cleaner, etc. in your neighborhood. It’s a bunch of small, friendly neighborhoods, something you’ll never see as a tourist or part-timer just passing through. Cars and private houses are the bane of my existence, give me an apartment with a super anytime, oh and good, healthy take-out!</p>
<p>I know Americans can’t just pick up and move to Helsinki, but even for citizens of the EU, you don’t hear of them moving to the Scandinavian EU countries for retirement or even for extended vacations. From what I read and hear, most of them want to go to cheaper, warmer places…I hear Croatia is popular. The British like the Spanish coast.</p>
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<p>Fair enough but here is where google and a bit of critical analysis might change the optics of this one. 2,000 alcohol related deaths in 2005 for a population of 5,375,000 …comes to a per capita death rate of .0003 related to alcohol in Finland. Only newsworthy because it apparently must surpass death rates in Finland due to other illnesses like cancer and cardiac arrest (?).</p>
<p>Now compare to the US. Take this article from 2005. [Alcohol</a> linked to 75,000 U.S. deaths a year - Health - Addictions - msnbc.com](<a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6089353/ns/health-addictions/t/alcohol-linked-us-deaths-year/#.TlRo-3NuEuc]Alcohol”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6089353/ns/health-addictions/t/alcohol-linked-us-deaths-year/#.TlRo-3NuEuc)</p>
<p>75,000 alcohol related deaths in the US…with a 2005 population of 296,000,000…now you have an alcohol related death per capita of .00025. Not sure that is interestingly different than the US.</p>
<p>Apologies in advance for the sources used…quickly done from google. But my real point being the media can create a perception from any angle.</p>
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<p>Fair enough. But I’m not sure the standard to judge livability is where people would prefer to retire. Retirement is like one long vacation. Of course the sun is a big part of that for many, sun = vacation. But ‘real life’ livability for most people means where you can work, short commutes, great schools, and the like. Spouse and I sometimes think we might retire on the island where we have a cabin…but NO WAY we would have wanted to live there most of our life.</p>
<p>I viewed ‘livability’ is where people would live if they could choose for reasons other than work. That’s why I thought of retirement. The fact that more people live and work in New York, Chicago and L. A. doesn’t make them the most ‘livable’ cities eventhough more people live there than in smaller cities. </p>
<p>I like this list: in no particular order.</p>
<p>Charleston, SC
Naples, FL
Sedona, AZ
Palm Desert, CA
Sonora, CA
Beaufort, SC
Charlottesville, VA
Lexington, KY
Santa Fe, NM
Ouray, CO</p>
<p>** Why The ‘Livable Cities’ Rankings Are Wrong? **</p>
<p>Even though I loved the city of Tokyo and Zurich, I might not want to live permanently there.
For a permanent living, I like the city of San Jose (Silicon Valley), California for many reasons.</p>
<ol>
<li>Weather - Nothing beats the good weather.</li>
<li>Lowest Crime Rate in US.</li>
<li>Most Cosmopolitan, Excellent demographics (You’ll find a person from every part of the world calling it home)</li>
<li>Excellent private and public schools (Difference between the inner city and Suburban area public schools is the smallest in US)</li>
<li>Healthy work opportunities (Low unemployment)</li>
<li>Good quality of life, Access to Ski, Beach, theater, sports etc.</li>
</ol>
<p>This article explain why Cox’s list has San Jose at the top.
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<p><a href=“http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/10/cities-livable-elite-economist-monocle-rankings-opinions-columnists-joel-kotkin.html[/url]”>http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/10/cities-livable-elite-economist-monocle-rankings-opinions-columnists-joel-kotkin.html</a></p>
<p>“If you live in NYC you know the neighborhoods that are not crowded, noisy, dirty, etc”</p>
<p>-it is only in relation to other places in NYC. In comparison to places outside of NYC, sorry, whole NYC is not livable by my standards, but we all have different standards. I even do not care about beautiful Chicago. If talking about large city. Chicago definitely beats NYC, but in my books they are just the same misearable places to live where people are staying only for having more job opportunities, I do not see any other reasons. Driving alone would make me mad and mentally sick.</p>
<p>I think I will stay put for a while. We are getting a whole new Euro-style downtown and a miniature Silicon Valley of our own:</p>
<p>[Google</a> to Open Office in Bothell](<a href=“http://www.bothellblog.net/content/google-open-office-bothell]Google”>http://www.bothellblog.net/content/google-open-office-bothell)</p>
<p>Washington DC, other than our recent earthquake, great free museums good mass transit, improving crime and schools.</p>
<p>Wash. DC schools are not where you would want your child to be. So if it is attractive palce to live, then it should be attractive enough to pay for private school. As far as mass transit, again, it is not for everybody and there are free museums everywhere as well as pay ones. Museums are my main attraction, I visit them very often, I do not mind the same ones, some are free others are not, it is not the point.<br>
I know that rasing family in Wash DC is not a choice of many. One of my friends just moved to Ann Arbor from Wash DC, they hated it. One of them had to quit an awesome job.</p>
<p>M-DAP - re: “my type of place!!!”</p>
<p>Sorry, just getting back to this thread. There are a few jobs in DW’s home town. I should mention that local employers are strongly against Minimum Wage laws. And also that teachers in the public school system average $20K/year or so … and that there’s a three-year waiting list for those positions. </p>
<p>The positives are strong families and very low cost of living.</p>
<p>Starbright hit the nail on the head, it depends on the person and also what stage of life they are in. Young people, before they are settled down, might find living in a city area where there is nightlife and activity and a wide variety of people more livable then a place where the sidewalks roll up at 6am; someone who is into cultural activities like music or art might find a city area more conducive a lifestyle then elsewhere, others who could care less about those things wouldn’t find that a big deal. As people grow older things change, the city person might want to live in a more suburban area but still in range of a city. And statistics don’t mean everything either. Someone on here mentioned San Jose, CA, and a friend of mine at work grew up there, and he said it isn’t as good as it looks on paper, there are basically two towns, one well off, mostly white and asian, and a second one, mostly working class and lower, mostly hispanic with some blacks and poorer asians, with gang activitity and drugs and other scourges of the inner city causing problems…not saying it isn’t a great town to live in (ills like that are common in most large towns and cities), but saying nowhere is perfect.</p>
<p>Okay,so what do I think makes a place livable?</p>
<p>-An area where there are a decent selection of jobs and employers, so if I lose my job or get tired of it, I have alternatives</p>
<p>-Salary levels that allow myself and my family to live comfortably</p>
<p>-A bearable commute. Many of my neighbors commiserate that I take a bus into NYC every day, but then they themselves end up driving in crazy traffic and end up with a commute that often is worse then mine. </p>
<p>-Access to decent shopping and recreation</p>
<p>-Access to cultural events, museums, music, art</p>
<p>-Living in an area/region where there are a wide variety of people, and most people are live and let live when it comes to differences, and there isn’t this gigantic pressure to conform like a 1950’s housing development or something. </p>
<p>-access to health care at all levels</p>
<p>No place is going to be good on all counts, the area I live in is expensive, my commute is not ideal, and at times other things get to me, but on the other hand, it also offers myself and my family a lot other areas probably wouldn’t.</p>
<p>NewHope,
Sounds awesome, although, these are not jobs for me, but I woudl drive up to 1 hr one way, would not drive longer though. So, apparently there are livable places on Earth besides big cities.</p>
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<p>Sounds like my H’s hometown. If your main criteria for livability is cost of living, you’ll love this place. The median price of a home is $79K. For $250K you can live in the nicest place in town. There are even two museums–a pottery museum, used to be lots of potteries in the area, and one that celebrates a local sports figure who grew up in town. Nothing in the downtown anymore except a funeral home, a B&B (owned by the funeral home guy), and a few bars and restaurants. All the shopping is out in the county where you can go to all those big box stores. Went back a few years ago for H’s high school reunion–he found it incredibly depressing. It’s a dying town and there doesn’t seem to be anyway to bring it back. Biggest employer in the area (steel mill) now employs about 200 people–it used to employ 5x as many people.</p>
<p>^ Yeah. Back in it’s heyday DW’s town had a large coal mining operation, a brewery, an iron casting factory, and a considerable shopping district. No more. As DW’s (ice cream loving) Uncle observed, “You can’t even buy a cone in town anymore.”</p>
<p>There are lots of these towns in the Central Time and Mountain Time zones.<br>
For fun, here is today’s Jeopardy challenge: </p>
<p>“Burlington, Velva, Garrison, Stanley, Bottineau, Rugby, and New Town”
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"What are major population centers near Minot, ND?</p>