Did the roommate himself care?
Was the roommate forced by his parents to move out?
It’s not uncommon here for providers to be connected to specific venues, which are attached to houses of worship, such as megachurches and large synagogues. It is my personal suspicion that those people are often members of that congregation who were hooked into the positions, but that’s another thread. But it does happen.
@ucbalumnus This just happened. My son is going to be a freshman in college next year, but they had already submitted their rooming forms to room together. The roommate himself knew my son was gay before he agreed to room together and didn’t say anything about it. Except “your work is important” they corresponded by email and met in person 2x for 2 months prior and had much in common food love of playing classical music, advocacy both cocacola scholars etc so got along as potential roommates
*They were accepted into a special civic engagement program bc of their outstanding advocacy for marginalized communities … program would continue civic engagement in said community my sons advocacy was/is for LGBT students anti bullying and the roommates was/is for mental health depression awareness .
My son doesn’t want to room w anyone that has any problems with his very existence so of course he is letting him out of rooming agreement
Steven Crowder of “Louder with Crowder” intentionally sought out Muslim bakeries that wouldn’t make wedding cakes for gay people and found some. If you google “gay wedding cake at muslim bakery” you’ll find many, many links with video.
Apparently he also found many that were happy to make the cake, but I don’t think he featured them on his video.
In any case, there aren’t all that many cities with multiple Muslim bakeries, Dearborn is a bit of an exception.
This is tricky because I dont want anyone treating me differently because of my color, as we all know it still happens. I also dont feel like I should be able to make someone do something against his religion. As far as the NC law goes, I believe it should be overturned. They used the transgender issue to gut a ton of protections for many groups, race, gender, etc.
As Ive said, women have stalls in their bathrooms, so who cares if a transgender woman is in there. Theres not a rash of trans women assaulting females in bathrooms. There are a ton of cases of heterosexual men assaulting women in restrooms.
Re: #162
Looks like the roommate and his parents may be in for more political conflict, since the parents are anti-gay, but the roommate is supportive/allied. Unfortunately for the roommate, his parents’ control over college financing gives them all of the power in this conflict (unless he has a full merit ride).
“I don’t understand where service providers get the idea they are participants in a wedding. They are hired help - nothing more.”
I guess where this shades into is … but if you are a contractor (such as the service provider), are you obligated to take any potential clients who walk your way?
Let me ask the question is - if my small, privately-owned company provides services designed to help people identify and market more effectively to their target market, and the NRA, or Philip Morris, or Jack Daniels, or McDonald’s, or Planned Parenthood – all perfectly legal companies / associations – come our way and express interest in our services and ask for a proposal, are we “allowed” to turn them down because we don’t want to use our skills to help those clients? Of course we are.
And there is no government entity I need to submit my reasoning to. It can be because we don’t want to render our services for gun associations, or tobacco companies, or alcohol companies. It can be because we’re vegan and don’t want to do work for companies that sell meat. Or it can simply be because we heard the head guy at Jack Daniels or McDonald’s is a real jerk and we don’t want to work with him. Or we’re super busy and don’t have room for another client at this time. Whatever. The point is, a private company doesn’t need to “accept” business, no matter how much money is thrown our way, and we don’t need to give reasons why.
That, I think, is the closer analogy here. I think you would agree that a firm in that situation shouldn’t be “forced” to work with a potential client that stands for things they don’t wish to be associated with. For that matter, that’s what describes Bruce Springsteen’s NC concert cancellation - just as I have the right to disengage from, say, a tobacco client, he has the right to disengage from (in this case) NC.
@Pizzagirl I am an airline pilot. Should I (and my company) get the right to pick and choose who I will fly on my aircraft due to who stands for things I don’t believe in?
and take it further …should I be able to ban Muslims on my airplane bc I assoc them as possible terrorist? Shouldn’t Muslims get civil rights not to b discriminated against?
You can discriminate all you want, you just can’t do it on the basis or race, religion, gender, sex, sexual orientation, age etc …ie “protected class things”
Flying a plane is your normal task, so it’s not analogous. If you were a private pilot who was a Sabbath observant Jew and were threatened with legal action if you didn’t fly that Muslim passenger on Saturday, you would be closer to the mark.
Runswimyoga. You keep talking about discriminating against PEOPLE and I keep talking about PROVIDING CUSTOMIZED PRODUCTS/SERVICES. We can’t have a dialogue unless you distinguish the two.
Weddings are between people. We are talking about providing services for a wedding not a corporate banquet.
What would be the difference?
Runswimyoga, airlines are a heavily regulated industry. Bakeries and photography studios aren’t.
Exactly. You or your corporation can’t discriminate on the basis of Race, religion, sex, age, sexual orientation etc
but sexual orientation isn’t covered in every state so you can discriminate due to sexual orientation in many states
I’m a photographer. Contacted by a member of one of the Orthodox Jewish sects currently in the news for child abuse. I decide I do not want to work with a member because child abuse is where I draw my line. Should I face legal consequences? Or I am asked to do a wedding for a Muslim family at a mosque that separates men and women. I’m opposed to that. Legal consequences?
@Pizzagirl just because bakeries don’t have as many regulations as airlines doesn’t mean they can violate the 14th amendment of the constitution the Equal Protection Clause
The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment prohibits states from denying any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the law. In other words, the laws of a state must treat an individual in the same manner as other people in similar conditions and circumstances. A violation would occur, for example, if a state prohibited an individual from entering into an employment contract because he or she was a member of a particular race.
The clause is not intended to provide equality among individuals or classes but only equal application of the law. The result of a law, therefore, is not relevant so long as there is no discrimination in its application. By denying states the ability to discriminate, the Equal Protection Clause is crucial to the protection of civil rights.
Generally, the question of whether the Equal Protection Clause has been violated arises when a state grants a particular class of individuals the right to engage in an activity yet denies other individuals the same right. There is no clear rule for deciding when a classification is unconstitutional. The Supreme Court has dictated the application of different tests depending on the type of classification and its effect on fundamental rights.
Traditionally, the Court finds a state classification constitutional if it has a “rational basis” to a “legitimate state purpose.” The Court, however, has applied more stringent analysis in certain cases. It will “strictly scrutinize” a distinction when it embodies a “suspect classification.” In order for a classification to be subject to strict scrutiny, it must be shown that the state law or its administration is meant to discriminate. Usually, if a purpose to discriminate is found, the classification will be strictly scrutinized if it is based on race, national origin or, in some situations, citizenship. In order for a classification to be found permissible, the state must prove that there is a compelling interest to the law and that the classification is necessary to further that interest.
The Court also will apply this test if the classification interferes with fundamental rights, such as First Amendment rights, the right to privacy or the right to travel. The Court also requires states to show more than a rational basis (though it does not apply the strict-scrutiny test) for classifications based on gender or a child’s status as illegitimate.
The 14th Amendment is not by its terms applicable to the federal government. Actions by the federal government, however, that classify individuals in a discriminatory manner will, under similar circumstances, violate the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment.
“I’m a photographer. Contacted by a member of one of the Orthodox Jewish sects currently in the news for child abuse. I decide I do not want to work with a member because child abuse is where I draw my line. Should I face legal consequences? Or I am asked to do a wedding for a Muslim family at a mosque that separates men and women. I’m opposed to that. Legal consequences?”
I’m a photographer. My best friend’s husband cheated on her, he dumped her, and now he’s marrying the chick he cheated on her with. They come to me and ask me to photograph their wedding because I’m the best photographer in town. I’m loyal to my girlfriend, I find the guy to be an insufferable sleaze bag and I think his bride-to-be is a whore. I want no part of this guy and his shenanigans and frankly if I’m close to him, I’m going to want to punch him in the face. Am I obligated to render my photography services on their happy day? If I refuse, will there be legal consequences?
PG it seems like you’re deliberately missing the point. Turn down the sleazebag friend’s ex, but not because he’s black or Catholic and you don’t like to work with black or Catholic people.
THAT is the difference.
I’m a county clerk in KY. I think gay people are going to go to hell, and they certainly shouldn’t be getting married. If I am forced to put my stamp on their marriage certificate I’m going to be sick to my stomach, and I might punch them in the face. Can’t I refuse?
I think in the cases where you are in a profession that regularly “turns people down” for any number of reasons (fully booked that day, taking a vacation day that day, etc.) there is more wiggle room than in cases where all you’re doing is baking a damn cake and having your guy deliver it to the venue. But clearly there are a lot of grey areas.