Government officials including police should keep their cool no matter how annoying or verbally aggressive someone is.
My agents are verbally abused on a daily basis it does not provide them a justification to use their authority beyond legal or procedural limits.
I used to get verbal abuse daily and even physical abuse once in a great while when I worked at a DV shelter. You are taught how to handle it, and your emotions, before stepping foot in the shelter.
It’s terrifying to me that some people can’t even hold up cops to a the standard of being a decent human being.
And by the way, I am not anti cop in the least. I think cops are on the short list of people that should make 100k a year right out of the gate. But I’ve also lost too many family members who died to ensure that we didn’t become a tyrannical state which includes a police state.
The video makes it look like three people have an anger problem. Unfortunately, the Barstow police department employs one of them.
“There are the ever present police apologists even when cops are clearly in the wrong. There are comments like the cops don’t know the law so lets give them a pass. But the victim is a “complete idiot” for standing up to illegal behavior by police. It is necessary for victims of police brutality to sue every time so that taxpayers will pay for blindly supporting bad police.”
Surprisingly enough, it is possible to hold more than one thought in one’s head. You can believe that police should always treat people with respect and never touch them unless it is necessary to arrest them or prevent harm, while also believing that people should be careful, non aggressive, and not act like an idiot when they are dealing with police. It is far more important to stay safe than to “stand up to illegal behavior” like the police asking for your name. And just because you may not be required to provide it, doesn’t mean that it is illegal for them to ask.
^^ This. Providing your name is entirely different from consenting to having your car searched, or agreeing to a pat-down. I give my name to the barista at Starbucks and the guy next to me at the bar, so it’s not secret hoarded information.
You can assert your rights any way you like, of course. But I’m from the school that believes the maid, the janitor, the barista, and the cop are all people doing a tough job who deserve the same basic courtesy I give anyone else. I could give a profanity-laden refusal when a cop asks my name, and that would be legal. But it’s also rude, and I’m not a rude person at heart.
BTW, something that drives my DW crazy is that I’ve gotten pulled over several times over the past 20 years and have never gotten a ticket. DW always gets a ticket. Maybe my treating officers with courtesy has something to do with it. Maybe it would be better for society if I refused to cooperate and got beaten up, tased, and arrested, and then won a lawsuit in court?
Reminds me of an old safe driving PSA…You can be right…dead right.
busdriver my agents have all the civil powers of the sheriff (not the criminal powers) so lets say they levy your bank account because you owe $10,000 which we have under judgment and you recently sent in $2500 which has not yet been credited to your account. You know the bank that was levied has the full $10,000 in it. So you call the agent and you tell him that you sent in $2500 and you ask him to release the levy. He will not and you get nasty. Lets say he knows you have other accounts is he in the right to go levy those since you were nasty? Since the first bank has not provided him notice what the levy amount was he only has your word that the bank is holding $10k. As far as he knows the debt is still due so legally he can issue more levies. Is that acceptable behavior from a government official?
tom, my point is not that police officers should be able to get away with anything, and not even that the officers involved in this had acceptable behavior. It seems clear to me that police will almost always be doing a better job if they defuse a situation, as opposed to making it worse (particularly with dealing with loony, confrontational, abrasive people). I have no idea what steps police officers can take that are legal/ethical/allowed (I would hope they know), however it seems that most any action might be taken if someone appears to be resisting arrest, even if they are just backing away or waving their hands.
You cannot control someone else’s behavior. You don’t know if you are dealing with a police officer with a chip on their shoulder, who has an anger problem, had an argument with his wife, or is going through a divorce. But they have the power, and they usually have a gun. You can control your own behavior. You can choose to make it painless, or you can choose to make it ugly. You can grab an officer’s gun and choose to die. The calmer and more compliant behavior you have, the safer you will be. I’m not saying this is right, it is just reality. My mantra is, “Is this the hill that I want to die on?” Sometimes it is, but usually it isn’t.
And I would be polite to your agent, no matter what. I may end up talking to his or her boss, or writing a legalistic letter, or even hiring a lawyer, but I would not be nasty. They are just people with a job to do like the rest of us. I am of the same school as anomander.
Note that this is not an either-or type of thing. It is often possible to legally refuse giving non-required information to a police officer (or someone else asking for it) in a civil way without being a jerk about it and possibly inciting the other party into actively trying to abuse you (legally or illegally).
“Note that this is not an either-or type of thing. It is often possible to legally refuse giving non-required information to a police officer (or someone else asking for it) in a civil way without being a jerk about it and possibly inciting the other party into actively trying to abuse you (legally or illegally).”
I completely agree. You can certainly do that in a calm and respectful manner.
^^I agree with @busdriver11 (above) that it is better to be calm and respectful of the guy with the badge and gun at the time of the confrontation than to escalate things. All in all, everyone in that video make poor decisions and jumped to a lot of conclusions.
And yet only one was arrested and had a child potentially in danger…
I thought she was walking away to have a little privacy for her phone conversation, not because she was running away. It was the police who made the decision to put a worse interpretation on her actions than necessary.
Unfortunately, she started out the day by putting her child in danger. Having a road rage incident, getting out of your car and pounding on someone else’s vehicle is not the way to keep your baby safe.
I am dumfounded that they throw her to the ground and handcuff her behind her back then tell her to get up - while 8 months pregnant - with her hands tied behind her back - OMG! I would be screaming too
We have only the word of the woman who called told the officer. She was no prize either and obviously exaggerated the nature of the altercation based on the initial interview. She said that she works at the elementary school and I was left wondering in what capacity with that outfit and attitude.
The woman who was arrested absolutely looked pregnant . . . if you can get past your expectation of a “heavy set” black woman just being how black women look all the time. She is not poorly behaved she is hysterical and has a right to be. She told the officer that her name is Michelle - then asked for a moment to make a call.
Do you think that getting in a road rage incident with someone bad enough for them to call the police, pounding on their car, and then claiming she felt threatened because the other lady was white is not poor behavior? Now saintfan, any chance in this universe that you would do that? 
It is poor behavior but not categorically worse than the woman who made the call. Based on her tone I am willing to believe that the woman who called also had some choice words in the exchange. Her report to the dispatcher was at best not completely accurate. Either way it didn’t warrant the response. They asked her why she was “resisting” then didn’t listen when she told them. Why don’t you want to be pinned against the fence. I’m pregnant. Why are you struggling. I’m pregnant. Why are you resisting. I’m pregnant. It goes on and they don’t acknowledge that she’s said anything they just continue to yell.
Ah, but you had just said she was not poorly behaved. And you are speculating about what the women who made the call said, just based on her tone. Now I thought the initial caller sounded like a real you know what also, but I can’t guess at what she said. Maybe I should watch the video again, because I didn’t hear, “Why don’t you want to be pinned against the fence. I’m pregnant. Why are you struggling. I’m pregnant. Why are you resisting. I’m pregnant.” I heard a lot of shrieking, that started out pretty early. And I don’t think that it warranted the response either.
The black woman said the white woman started the altercation by beeping and yelling repeatedly. She thought the black woman was in the wrong lane or something. I ask you, in a school drop off lane, would you do that? Is that how you get someone’s attention or try to correct their mistake? Unless you’re trying to cause trouble… like the cop was also apparently trying to cause trouble by handcuffing someone when he had already said, “no crime was committed”.
I lived near a middle school for years and the parents who were dropping off their kids could be awful. The teachers were bad too. The only calm and professional drivers were the bus drivers (thank goodness for that).