Worst BA/MD programs

Pre-Med & Medical School Multiple Degree Programs
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<p>To those of you who wish to pursue Premed at Ivy league in these turbulent DOW times despite all the negative news forthcoming from World markets and with a very poor outlook on jobs, looming depression, job losses, and significantly injured 401ks, if any of you kids wish to still begin your 4 years at Ivy, I wish you and your parents the best of luck!</p>

<p>Not many people on CC can be 100 % sure that BOTH parents will continue to have their jobs through upcoming rough economic times, nor can the schools promise as much financial aid as they did in the past years.</p>

<p>Also bear in mind that by the time you complete your undergrad, the Med school fees will be nearly 25-30% higher than they are now. State funded med schools are now in the 45k/year range. Ivys are 55-60k/year.</p>

<p>Consider doing the math in a rational (not emotional manner). If you are certain that your parents can support you throughout 4 years and have a contingency College fund (that is not half its value in today’s DOW), and you get accepted, Ivy may be an option for you. </p>

<p>Having said that I would like to mention that going to Ivy is no gaurantee that you will be accepted in a Medical school. I have recently seen a Princeton grad getting rejected by UMDNJ although I admit I do not know all her stats.</p>

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<p>All Medical schools in this country has to meet strict guidelines or else they will be placed on probation and finally lose their accreditation status. Because of the medico legal issues involved in this profession the guidelines of what material is taught in these schools has to be very similar. The methods of how they teach the material, or in which year they start clinical training/clinical history taking may vary
The academic rankings of medical schools do not reflect the education the medical schools provide. They more or less reflect the academic ( research dollars/ number of publiations) strenghts of a particular medical school.</p>

<p>However if a student wants to have a high profile academic( tenured) medical career after they are done with all their medical training, they may want to go to such a medical school and even consider a MD/PhD program. The other caveat…Name brand medical schools ( Harvard more than UPenn) may matter if you want to do private practice in competitve areas in this country…for example if you want to be a plastic surgeon say in Hollywood!! </p>

<p>Residency /fellowship programs are offered in the univeristy hospitals of medical schools
( teaching)or affiiated hospitals . As mentioned by Norcalguy several hospitals may be affiliated with one medical school. And hospitals maybe pure university hospitals, community based hospitals, VA hospitals, outpatient clinics as part of a greater health system etc etc. (All kinds of permuation/ combinations …very confusing and complicated)</p>

<p>The residency programs usually do not have a ranking system.Some of the residency programs are high profiled academic, programs, others offer great opportunity for clinical experience, others offer a mix of both etc. Infact many hospitals not associated with high ranked medical schools may have very high profiled ( academic or competitive)residency programs.Derm at Cincinnati, urology at IU , Neurosurgery at Barrows etc.</p>

<p>Those medical students that want to go into private practice in any gepgraphic area…say near their home, or wants to be hired by community hospitals/clinics often opts to go those residency programs where they have opportunities for more hands on clinical work. The more volume and variety of folks they see…the better off they are. Academic/ research papers may not be very important to them</p>

<p>Then we have students that want to be affiliated with an university to do some part time teaching (of medical students/ residents/ and or in the community)and also do part time clinical work ( what is known as a clinical tenured as opposed to the academic tenured positions) . They often opt to go to the mixed mid profiled residency programs</p>

<p>In othr words, the type of clinical/academic career you want for yourself will determine what type of a residency/ fellowship program you will want to match with.The medical school really does not matter in that equation unless you want to be a tenured academician in a high profiled university hospital, or do private prctice in a competitive field in a competitive geographical area.—</p>

<p>Most physicians will tell you…medicals school rankings did not matter very much in their applications for residency match and their final careers…
Life circumstances often determined where they matched and what type of physicians they became.</p>

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<p>What is it with Joydad and MiamiDAP constantly plugging Cinncinnati as having a top/high-caliber dermatology residency program when it doesn’t?</p>

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<p>I think they want/need to feel good about their state schools.</p>

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<p>Well, I did not say that Derm. Cinci was highly ranked. I said that The Official Ranking of US Dermatology Departments ranked it 29th. However, I was happy to see that Joydad mentioned it. Thank you, Joydad for post full of very useful information and insights. I am very interested in Derm. at Cinci in particular because my D. is in bs/md with U of Cinci College of Medicine and she is very interested in Derm. She knows that this specialty is extremely competitive. She is also planning to apply out (still retaining her spot at Cinci).</p>

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<p>MiamiDAP, as we already established in the prior posts those RP rankings ARE NOT actual rankings of the programs themselves. Any d o u c h e bag can come up with a bunch of schools and put them in any order and label them as “Official” rankings. Try a more trusted source like USWNR. It’s not perfect, but it ranks along more than just one parameter. </p>

<p>I agree with you Oreo45, I guess some people just have to feel good about the state schools they are in, in this case the daughter being at U of Cincinnati.</p>

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<p>U.S. News and World Report ranks each medical discipline on an annual basis For 2006 they listed rankings for the following disciplines: cancer; digestive disorders; ear, nose & throat; endocrinology; gynecology; heart and heart surgery; kidney disease; neurology and neurosurgery; ophthalmology; orthopedics; pediatrics; psychiatry; rehabilitation; respiratory disorders; rheumatology; and urology. each of these disciplines is rated on patient-based factors, such as reputation and mortality. </p>

<p>U.S. News and World Report does not rate dermatology programs</p>

<p>It all does not matter, as long as D gets into any Med. School or retain her spot at Cinci if Medicine is still what she wants to do in 2 years. I definately prefer Cinci because of cost and least trouble overall. She will not need to apply, spend time & money on all these application fees, interviews (if she gets any???). All she will need for Cinci is GPA=3.45 and MCAT=27. Is that hard to get MCAT=27?</p>

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<p>MiamiDAP
MCAT definitely requires a lot of prep time. But I am very sure that 90% of the students that get in any BS/MD programs will score well on the MCATS if they prepare well.I think the calibre of these students are as such.</p>

<p>This is a part of a post from a different thread which was very helpful for us.</p>

<p>Finally rather than ranking…the questions to ask about any medical school are

  1. How are the clinical roatation structured.?
    2.How supportive is the faculty and students?
    3.What are the average boards scores of the students?
  2. Is there availability of research opportunities, over seas clinical rotations build in the curriculum?
  3. 3-5 years residency match data etc etc. How established is the medical school, and what areas and where their medical students go after finishing.</p>
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<p>If any student wants to attend highly ranked universities for their undergrad education or go to highly ranked medical schools for the medical education that is their choice. Many of these combined BS/MD unranked programs in such instances…will not be a good fit for them.</p>

<p>But if you dont care too much about school rankings and simply want to be a doctor (any kind including ROAD SPECIALITIES) and practice close to your home ( any geographical regions) -than any US based medical schools, and yes even many state medical schools or private unranked medical schools will provide an excellent medical education. Infact for many practical reasons…money, family being near etc State medical schools can be an excellent choice. </p>

<p>Indeed for this group of students the combined BS/MD programs , given the fact that they are assured of a place in the medical school… can cut down considerably - the stress full process of applying to medical schools. Its is not only MCATS, but GPA of the pre-med courses, extracurriculars, research, interviews…the whole process involved in applying to med schools- can be and is a very intimidating process for all pre-med students. One bad grade in Organic chemistry finals because you felt ill…Doing a poor interview because you got up on the wrong side of the bed… can break the deal!! Sometimes these unexpected things do happen. This is one of the main reasons as to why the combined BS/MD programs are popular and so very competitive. </p>

<p>Do a simple experiment…ask 20 of your close family and friends.
if they know where their doctors went to medical school or where they did their residency training. Also ask what things they look for when choosing their regular doctor ie how many papers he or she published, what were their board scores, or how good are they in making good clinical decisions. That will tell you a lot.
Now do the same experiment in Hollywood, Boston, New york …the answers I am sure will be different. </p>

<p>As I mentioned before name brand medical schools and or high ranked residency programs will matter…if you opt to work in an academic settings full time, practice in big cities / popular geographical areas, work with high profiled patients or decide to work in the media field etc. </p>

<p>But for many many others that will do mostly clinical work with plus minus teaching in local communities ( remember and understand doctors are needed in all communities, all cities, all towns not just a few teaching hospitals or few popular towns)…they will be better served in residency programs that will offer more hands on clinical experience. </p>

<p>A final point–even to get in ROAD or other similar competitive residencies you can do so… coming from these unranked medical school. Look at the match results of some of the residency programs. Good USMLE scores, some research experience /extracurriculars, strong letters of recommendations and a good interview will help tremendously in getting matched in such fields.</p>

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<p>Great post, JoyDad </p>

<p>I would just add the following - Not everyone who gets into Ivy for undergrad will get accepted at Ivy Med schools. There are plenty of Ivy grads here on CC that could chime in about the difficulty of getting accepted in Ivy medical schools despite superior stats and ECs. </p>

<p>If you are highly research oriented and know that you want to pursue an MD/PhD path, then perhaps BS/MD combined degrees are NOT for you. Those of you who love research may want to consider Traditional paths.</p>

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<p>MiamiDAP, actually a 27 is a very low MCAT score, so for staying in the program it should not be a problem.</p>

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<p>Those last 2 posts are great joydad. That’s what students who are applying to BA/MD programs as well as those who decide to do the 4+4 route should keep in mind.</p>

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<p>Pharmagal- Why do you feel the need to comment on Ivy league if your child is at a state school?</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Only a very small percentage of Ivy League premeds will get into Ivy League med schools. True.</p>

<p>But, it is also true that a very large percentage (majority) of students at Ivy League med schools come from Ivy League colleges. I’m using “Ivy League college” somewhat loosely, meaning all schools that are Ivy League caliber. In fact, 70% of my med school class comes from a Top 20 college.</p>

<p>This is the interview roster I was given for the last interview day at my med school:</p>

<p>Yale University</p>

<p>Cornell University</p>

<p>Purdue University</p>

<p>Dartmouth College</p>

<p>Stanford University</p>

<p>Harvard University</p>

<p>Johns Hopkins University</p>

<p>University of Notre Dame</p>

<p>University of California-Davis</p>

<p>Illinois Institute of Technology</p>

<p>University of California-Berkeley</p>

<p>Washington University in St. Louis</p>

<p>University of California-Los Angeles</p>

<p>Columbia University </p>

<p>From my experience interviewing and from the makeup at my med school and others, I can tell you that this ratio of top college: non-top college is fairly normal for top med schools. Obviously, you can still attend a top med school w/o coming from a prestigious undergrad (as one poster on this thread has demonstrated) but it’s a lot harder.</p>

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<p>My child graduated from an Ivy & is at an Ivy league med school. Her college classmates got med school interviews/acceptances at Ivy & top med schools. Her HS classmates from the state flagship got lower tier med school interviews- even though they are just as smart or smarter then she. My daughter’s med school class is full of Ivy/top college graduates who have the top scores with a handful of lower tier or state school grads.</p>

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<p>Our friend’s daughter did her undergraduate degree at Washu but opted to go to the state medical school because of cost involved. Another friends son did his undergraduate at a small LAC and is completing med school at North western (4+4) and is over 75 K in debt. If you are fortunate enough to get accepted and can afford to attend Ivy league equivalent med schools you are truly( and doubly) blessed. Many students may not be that fortunate. Cost is a big factor that determines which med school to attend…practical decisions!! One of the main reasons why high calibre students coming from state universities are likely to apply and accept admission to in-state medical schools. </p>

<p>Of course many MD/PhD programs in highly ranked medical schools offer free medical education. However many students may not be very keen to complete such a long program,(8-10 years) unless they are really interested in pursuing an academic medical career.</p>

<p>Competitivess is intense for spots in the highly ranked medical school…there is no doubt about it. But there maybe genuine practical reasons i.e affordability being one,as to why some students may not even apply to such programs</p>

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<p>the most important thing to consider is residency placement.</p>

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<p>i told you guys that umkc was bad teehee</p>

59

<p>Could someone post a list of the best bs/md programs in the southeast? We’ve look on the AMA website and found mostly less than top tier schools offering the program in the south. Thanks</p>

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<p>Miltonmom,</p>

<p>Univ of Miami and Rice Univ both have excellent BS/MD programs for those applying in Southern States.</p>

<p>There may also be other med schools in TX that offer combined medical program. Perhaps someone from Southern schools on line may want to comment.</p>