<p>You only said.
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</p>
<p>Not everyone thrives in that environment. In this thread, 2 examples have been given already. U-M might have a huge student body, but you go into it’s business program, and you will get just as much, if not more attention than students at Brown. People that are in the PA program are treated extremely well. As it should be, I think only like 350? students get in every year</p>
<p>In terms of prestige, most colleges that people know are Harvard, Yale, Cambridge, Oxford, Stanford, MIT, CalTech. Those are the ones that get people’s attention right off the bat. </p>
<p>I went around the United States recently, and I’ve noticed that in smaller rural parts of the country, schools like NYU get more attention than say U-M. Whenever I mention U-M in Michigan, most of the uninformed people just think it’s a state school that’s merely good. </p>
<p>From there, you get the bigger public schools, U-M, Berkeley, and then rest of the Ivies. If I asked any non CC’er to name off the Ivies (which I have), the most commonly left off ones are Cornell and Brown. Stanford is almost always included, and most people are surprised that it’s not an Ivy.</p>
<p>I’m still not understanding why Brown is that much of a better choice than Michigan. Other than small environment which is clearly important for you, but possibly not for the person the OP is talking about.</p>
<p>“Diversity and heterogenous environment is the key to natural selection.
The more diverse the group the better evolution will happen.”</p>
<p>That has to be the weakest support I’ve ever heard for geographic diversity.</p>
<p>“smaller classes ensire you learn better”</p>
<p>No, it doesn’t. You do know, right, that the majority of classes are lectures and so it doesn’t matter whether you have five or fifty people around you – it isn’t a discussion, but rather a lecture in which the professor simply teaches.</p>
<p>“interact more with fellow students”</p>
<p>And this isn’t possible in larger classes? In fact, it seems more likely that you’ll interact when there are more people around you, and you’ll have more people to help you with homework, study groups, etc. While Berkeley and UMich are larger, they have more professors and grad student instructors that ensure that classes aren’t overwhelmingly huge, anyway.</p>
<p>“f you lived all over the world then you can easily say which Univ people in an outside country know more about U-M or Brown.”</p>
<p>It’d probably be UMich (though of course if Berkeley were in the equation, it’d probably trump both of them), as it’s established itself in many, many fields, has more students, has a larger alumni network, etc. Think about it: UMich is a public university, so it’s more likely that it’s more well known to the public. Privates tend to be well known because of their accomplishments; Brown pales in comparison to UMich/Berkeley in that area.</p>
<p>Berkeley tends to be known more in like the international community of professors/teachers than U-M, while U-M is known to students of colleges overseas more.</p>
<p>Both of them are rather tied, but if I had to, I’d give the nod to Berkeley.</p>
<p>I never said UC-B is lesser known than Brown outside USA that is why I compare only Brown and U-M.</p>
<p>UC-B tends to be very strong in its EE&CS department which is the main reason for its popularity all over the world.</p>
<p>I never denied it but saying if this is true for UC-B then it is true for U-M is false analogy.</p>
<p>So I get the impression that WC states are greater in diversity (particularly asians than elsewhere in the country.) This is probably simply due to the greater number of Asians on the WC though…</p>
<p>By the way, Michigan was kinda cool. I wanted to go fishing in the great lakes but I didn’t have time…I actually wanted to take a boat out to the middle of one, but it was too expensive, you needed reservations and when I got there I heard they’re polluted. Oh some dude from my college comes from Michigan but he got a scholarship and now he’s studying in Toukyou. A lucky imp isn’t he?</p>
<p>I really don’t understand her choice either, especially since Brown and UCLA offered her more money. I would have certainly followed the increased aid funding, but I guess she just loved U-M a lot when she visited or something.</p>
<p>Still, a lot of girls (and a lot of guys too of course) go into college thinking they’ll become engineers…then they take differential equations, and get the hell out of there. I wouldn’t be surprised if she decides to change her major…Still, if she’s sure she definitely wants to study engineering, then U-M beats brown for sure. She might not have liked all the Asians at UCLA or something…(don’t call me a racist, I’m Asian myself. Don’t act like the figures of 50% Asians doesn’t give you reason to pause).</p>
<p>Also, ParentofIvyHope, every school you listed was a top 5 ranked school. I hope you don’t pressure your kids that much to enter the top 5 ranked schools. I can certainly see you telling your kids “I won’t pay for any college out of the top 5” like my dad (he was half-joking). You need to understand that times are changing in the world, and reputations of colleges will fluctuate up and down. Ivies no longer have a monopoly on higher education. </p>
<p>Maybe I can point you in the direction of the liberal arts colleges, such as Amherst/Williams. I really suggest you check it out. I know that a lot of Asian parents I’ve met (that’s a lot) have been happy to learn about the LACs. You can’t just look for a college’s reputation on the street, you need to look for a college’s reputation with those who are actually in the know.</p>
<p>Haha, differential equations is what convinced me that electrical engineering was for me :p</p>
<p>My point wasn’t that U-M / UC-B beats Brown out of the water, but that to make a statement which seems like it’s solely based on Brown is an Ivy League is frankly silly and misinformed. </p>
<p>To say that just because it’s an Ivy league, Brown’s students are that much better, the name is worth that much more, is just…, it infuriates me that anyone could think like that.</p>
<p>parentofivyhope, not everyone needs an ivy league education to develop a personality and discover their talents. People committed to learning and self-improvement will ‘find themselves’ and develop their skills wherever they go.</p>
<p>I understand one thing and say things that I’ll tell my daughter too.</p>
<p>If I need to pay > $30K for College every year then I’ll rather pay it for Brown’s Education than UC-B unless it is CS&EE at UCB.</p>
<p>I’m not sure if any department at U-M ranked so high to justify spending > 30K every year over Brown.</p>
<p>If it is paying $10K for UCB/U-M and > $30K for Brown, then it is a different equation.</p>
<p>I’m always a little amused by the notion that Berkeley is less “diverse” than a place like Brown because so many of its students come from a single state, California.</p>
<p>If you superimposed California over the Eastern Seaboard, it would stretch from Maine to Virginia. Its population is 61% as large as the combined population of the nine states the US Census Bureau refers to as the Northeastern US (Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Hampshire, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Vermont). California’s climate ranges from rain forest to parched desert; its workforce leads the nation in the number of billionaire capitalists and migrant farmers.</p>
<p>All of that gets trumped, apparently, by the experience of having had the same governor.</p>
<p>ParentOfIvy,</p>
<p>“I’m not sure if any department at U-M ranked so high to justify spending > 30K every year over Brown.” </p>
<p>That statement alone tells me you don’t know anything about Michigan.
Michigan is in the top 10 in the Engineering rankings for both Undergrad and Grad school.
Brown Doesn’t even crack the top 20 or 30 in both rankings.</p>
<p>If you check the USnews rankings, michigan is in the top 10 for Med school, Law School, Education Program, business school.
It’s even in the top 5 of the PoliSci rankings.</p>
<p>rold50: if U-M is so highly ranked for Engg, Med, Law and education programmt then why the brown admission rate and U-M admission rate differe so much???</p>
<p>Why are you trying to convince a guy who has ivy in his nick that a non-ivy school is better than an ivy school??</p>
<p>Tis an exercise in futility</p>
<p>You want to convince me that I should advice my daughter to apply at U-M instead of Brown.</p>
<p>I don’t think it make sense. I do advice and my daughter will apply to UC’s as there is tuition difference and in some cases it might make more sense to join UC-B.</p>
<p>But if you trying to convince me to advice my daughter to apply to U-M to spend 30K in tuition then you are certainly out of your mind.</p>
<p>ParentOfIvyHope, Admission rate has no correlation with level of education. Caltech has an admission rate hovering around 30%, but there’s no questions it’s education is top notch.</p>
<p>U-Mich ranks highly for Law, Business and Engineering (significantly higher than Brown). Brown is mostly a LAC, it’s foolish to think that Ivy’s can beat other colleges at everything.</p>
<p>Let us be reasonable, don’t misguide people on the board. It may make sense for students from Michigan to choose U-M over Brown as there is tons of difference in tuition for some of its departments.</p>
<p>But it doesn’t and I say definitely doesn’t make sense for Californian ( out of state ) student to consider applying to U-M rather considering joining.</p>
<p>Can you just list 1 good reason for a californian student to apply to U-M forget joining shelling out > 20K difference in tuition every year.</p>
<p>ParentOfIvyHope,</p>
<p>It’s just the same as me picking USC over UCLA for my undergrad because USC has a better engineering program than UCLA.</p>
<p>Again, it depends on what major you want to be?
If you really want to get a good engineering education and you have to pick Brown or Mich, I say go with Michigan. Michigan’s engineering program is in the top 10, Brown is not even in the top 20 or 30. </p>
<p>You have to consider what programs the school is really good at. I would say if you plan to go into LAC, liberal arts… then go with Brown.</p>
<p>Can you just list 1 good reason for any student to apply to Brown forget joining shelling out > 40K in tuition every year.</p>
<p>Just so you know U-M is in Michigan NOT California.</p>
<p>I can list many reasons.</p>
<ol>
<li>Ross is consistently in the Top 5 for Undergrad Business.</li>
<li>One of the best Engineering Programs in the Country.</li>
<li>Top-10 (if not Top 5) Law school in the nation.</li>
</ol>
<p>You can’t get it through can you. MICHIGAN HAS A BETTER ENGINEERING PROGRAM THAN BROWN.</p>