In what way Yale’s program is subpar?
(granted, I don’t know much about it, but undergrad is undergrad … )
Till last week we were deciding between UT and UCB. Really liked Turing program at UT. But CMU, yale, cornell came afterwards and became more confused.
When my son looked into this three years ago, he thought some courses were offered only every other year. And he heard that they pipe the intro course CS 50 from Harvard, which is sad. I read articles on Bloomberg a few years ago that the university was reluctant to make investments into the department. The ranking it has is likely only because the math department is ok, and therefore, the theory part of the department is likely good.
Yale should be a serious consideration if the kid has serious non CS interests – like quant/finance for example.
My older son had a laundry list of 17 schools on his list, and Yale wasn’t on it.
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UT is geared to send you to grad school. My son wrote about a theory Prof in his essays – that he liked her work in a particular area. The director of the program hand wrote a note on the acceptance letter saying that if my son came to the admitted student event, he will have the Prof come and meet him. This level of attention will not be available at UCB. I also have anecdotal evidence of difficulty of getting attention at UCB to people that are even very well connected with CS faculty at UCB.
Just because UT is geared towards academia it doesn’t mean you are not setup for Tier 1 jobs. You can walk into any top tech internship without any serious prep if you are an academia bound kid. Your training in algos etc will be very strong just by the fact that you are academia bound.
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I really don’t think for undergrad there is 1 bit of difference between any of these fine schools academically or access to future opportunities. It will be about how he makes use of his next 4 years, which will in turn be driven by where he will best find his fit.
These are all very different schools in terms of size, weather, environment and general vibe. Some kids may want the big college, big sports environment (UT, UCB), others may want nature and solitude (Cornell), others may feel the LAC like social life of a residential college system (Yale) is appealing to them, some may want nice weather year round while others like varied seasons.
Also how set is your son on his major? Some schools on your list are less flexible in terms of exploring or changing to other areas.
Have you visited these colleges? I would also attend accepted students days/weekend – I know Yale has one. In one sense it is staged, but your son will get to meet a bunch of potential classmates. How likely will it be for him to find his tribe at the selected school is not a small consideration.
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I think that UT Turing dominates UCB, so I would remove UCB unless in was in state for cost. I would also remove CMU do to the issues with CS. Between UT Turing and Cornell, I would pick UT. The programs are similar enough, and I would rather spend 4 years in Austin. Better overall college experience. UT vs Yale is interesting. If he was 100% certain on CS+math, it would be UT. However, no one is 100% certain. Both math and CS are default majors because students think they know what they are getting into. However, when many start actually getting into what the topic actually is, they realize that they don’t actually like it. I had a friend that it took him until his MS to realize that he didn’t like CS. He got a PhD in another field. Also, some students realize that there are other options out there that they have never been exposed. My friend knew nothing about Educational Psychology when he was in high school. Now he is a Dean at a B1G school. I also don’t think the drop off to Yale CS is that much at the UG level. So, for the flexibility, I would pick Yale. However, I could construct an argument to put any of them on the top.
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I more or less agree with many posters so far. Unless you are willing to forego CS, CMU seems like an easy removal. I also agree with the posters that put UT Turing well above UCB. I would think you would have to really want to live in Berkeley to even consider UCB above the other options. If you don’t KNOW that you want to live in Berkeley, you probably don’t.
For us last year, cost was at least a consideration. Stanford was the only program we would have paid for once the Turing acceptance came. That said, if cost is really not a factor, as many have said, a student is likely to be wildly successful in everyone of these programs. Will the residential college system of Yale or Cornell bring out the best in the student? Or would the prefer UT where the focus is in Math and CS courses, with absolutely minimal other class requirements?
I tend to agree with you on some points.
Having gone to Cornell (CS) myself and having toured multiple schools for my son, I came to a conclusion that I’d have picked Rice and UT(A) over Cornell (in a vacuum).
These days, for regular CS, I’d pick Cornell over UT, but Turing program is different.
I’d pick Cornell over Yale for OP’s majors. Cornell Math is no worse than Yale’s and CS has a significant edge.
UCB L&S wouldn’t be on the list (EECS would be though).
He is pretty much focus on math(mainly) and CS. He definitely wants to try Econ/Finance. So pretty much that’s it.
We visited only UT turning event. It was nice - Small community in a big school. We r planning to visit other 4 this month. Yale event is last on 25th to 27th.
He is not a party kid. Weather is not a factor in selection.
We r out of state for all.
How strict is CMU? Don’t they let add CS minor?
You r so right. Yale V/s UT is interesting.
He may like to explore Econ/Finance too.
UT allows lot of AP credits for general requirement.
Really speaking, Don’t know much about residential college system. Have to look into it. Also, we both parents didn’t study here so have no idea how undergraduate college works here.
Just a note that while Cornell students don’t declare their major until second semester sophomore year and offers a good amount of flexibility, the one area where that isn’t the case is with Dyson. So, if finance is on the radar, be aware that a transfer to Dyson is highly competitive.
My guess is OP is talking about Quant Finance,
and there is plenty of that in CIS/ORIE.
Also CMU has this: Bachelors of Science in Computational Finance - Mathematical Sciences - Mellon College of Science - Carnegie Mellon University
Could be a good option as well, but I feel CMU lacks flexibility (as will Turing).
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Quant finance could mean different things obviously. If you are looking for sell side structuring type roles, or roles on the buy side like a hedge fund, something like an MSCF at CMU or equivalent Bachelor’s program would suffice. If the OP means quant as in quant market making, then those roles require more of a pure math background – combinatorics/probability. Something in theoretical CS with a math minor or a math major. The econ is not really necessary for those roles.
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I agree, that’s why Dyson is irrelevant. Math/CS/ORIE would be the way to go.
Didn’t think in quant finance direction yet. He started with Math - then added CS and enjoyed Econ class last year. But sounds interesting and will look into it.
Yes, he is more into this.
Yale.
- More than half of US university students change their Major at least once.
2)Coming from Yale will always be … coming from Yale.
3)Excellent job prospects and networking so that grad school is less necessary compared to students with other university undergrad degrees.
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CS50 is not part of Yale’s computer science curriculum. It is for non-majors.
https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2018/2018434.pdf suggests that it is more like a third of those who ever declared a major change their major at least once. However, it does not include undeclared students who change their intended major before they declare any major, since such information is unlikely to be tracked by colleges or anyone else in aggregate.
It also notes that math majors have a high rate of changing majors, but CS majors have a below average rate of changing majors.